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Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

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Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#11

Post by beagle3 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Cool. Portable. Cheap. Can run Quake II. But what does that get you? Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse. So you can only use it where those things are. For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. That would be portable. Useful for a student lab, at my Mom's house, in a hotel. Just a thought.

> For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer.

Linux distributions have been doing this very successfully for the past 9 years (knoppix paved the way, but almost every linux distribution today can run live from a CD/SD/DiskOnKey, and store your data on an SD/DiskOnKey (the same one, if properly partitioned).

And it's unlikely a hotel or your student lab would actually let you reboot into your own distribution; once you have control of the hardware (which you must have), you practically own it from that moment.

CherryPy is actually a much better solution than yours:

Your lab, and your hotel room, is likely to have a screen that can take VGA or HDMI input - so you've got a display; You can get foldable silicon keyboards for $10 or so, and a small travel mouse for $10 more. So, for $45, you have something you can _already_ use at your lab or hotel room, with no one having to fear you're putting viruses on their system.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#12

Post by jodrellblank »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Cool. Portable. Cheap. Can run Quake II. But what does that get you? Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse. So you can only use it where those things are. For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. That would be portable. Useful for a student lab, at my Mom's house, in a hotel. Just a thought.

What it gets you is the ability to give it to a household with a TV, and they can have a computer to play with cheaply.

It's not meant for us, it's meant for people with no computer, or maybe one computer they aren't allowed to (or don't dare to) fiddle with in case they break it. It's for educational use.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#14

Post by 101000101 »

beagle3 wrote: post #11
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Cool. Portable. Cheap. Can run Quake II. But what does that get you? Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse. So you can only use it where those things are. For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. That would be portable. Useful for a student lab, at my Mom's house, in a hotel. Just a thought.

> For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. Linux distributions have been doing this very successfully for the past 9 years (knoppix paved the way, but almost every linux distribution today can run live from a CD/SD/DiskOnKey, and store your data on an SD/DiskOnKey (the same one, if properly partitioned). And it's unlikely a hotel or your stude…

A comment like Joe's really surprises me. Time and again I see brilliant coders who for whatever reason cannot see the path to making their own live USB/SD sticks.

But there's a better solution than beagle's suggestion.

Sell hardware that has no bundled OS. Sell different OS's on removable media (e.g. memsticks). Or users can create their own OS memsticks.

Apple is primarily a hardware company, as evidenced by the value they place on their design team and design patents, and where they derive the lion's share of their revenue.

If I could buy Apple hardware without it being tied to Apple's OS's, I would be willing to pay Apple hardware prices more frequently.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#15

Post by ctdonath »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #5
eugenejen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to use them as cheap embedded systems that without KVM.

Right, that's the primary use in my mind. Not gonna be much use to a primary school student.

Au contraire, it's perfect for kids. First off (as a parent of two toddlers) it's CHEAP; if a kid manages to destroy it (the little entropy generators kids are), so what - get another. Next, it starts so simple (and CHEAP) that you'll have no qualms about running simple cheap software on it. Then, you'll think nothing of putting money into a computer for any/all TV in the house (I'm waffling about a Mac Mini, but a RasberryPi is a no-brainer). So there's an easy, cheap, nigh-unto-disposable (we're talking kids here) computer that can run powerful stuff yet you'll have no qualms about devoting to a young mind.

BTW: I started programming in 4th grade, with printing terminals and acoustic-coupled dial-up mainframes. A few years later I had a then-equivalent of the RasberryPi: Dad soldered together a $100 Sinclair ZX-80 (likewise, the screen was your TV), and I programmed that thing darn near non-stop. Heck yeah the RasberryPi is "gonna be much use to a primary school student". Can't wait to get my kids going on it.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#16

Post by burgerbrain »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Cool. Portable. Cheap. Can run Quake II. But what does that get you? Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse. So you can only use it where those things are. For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. That would be portable. Useful for a student lab, at my Mom's house, in a hotel. Just a thought.

"Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse."

Why?

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#17

Post by DanBC »

I'm really excited by this project. I think it's a great idea. I very much hope they sell them to anyone, maybe at a slightly higher price to subsidise the others.

But there's a tiny[1] hint of regret that modern programming is necessarily abstracted away from the hardware. When people were using the popular home computers of the 1980s they would be able to use some version of BASIC, and then also some machine code if needed. And that wasn't something just limited to the brightest smartest young programmers; it was above average but nothing extreme. I learnt Z80 ASM on a suitcase instructional computer, turning fans on and off or stepping through traffic light sequences on LEDs. Then I made a resistor ladder DtoA convertor and pushed data out the parallel printer port for audio. (Something also done by No$GB emulator.)

That seems to be something that children will be missing out on, unless this project gives them enough boost to then investigate things like arduino or similar.

[1] Not a criticism in any way of the Raspberry Pi project.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#18

Post by DanBC »

101000101 wrote: post #14
beagle3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. Linux distributions have been doing this very successfully for the past 9 years (knoppix paved the way, but almost every linux distribution today can run live from a CD/SD/DiskOnKey, and store your data on an SD/DiskOnKey (the same one, if properly partitioned). And it's unlikely a hotel or your stude…

A comment like Joe's really surprises me. Time and again I see brilliant coders who for whatever reason cannot see the path to making their own live USB/SD sticks. But there's a better solution than beagle's suggestion. Sell hardware that has no bundled OS. Sell different OS's on removable media (e.g. memsticks). Or users can create their own OS memsticks. Apple is primarily a hardware company, as evidenced by the va…

uh, you can run other OSs on Apple hardware. It's a little bit trickier because of EFI but it's not hard.

What you can't do (Apple say) is run Apple OSs on non-Apple hardware.

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