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Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

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Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#31

Post by ozim »

snowpiercer wrote: post #29
dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

Don't you think you actually did well in your exams because you really understood it and not because you blindly memorized it ?

That is false dichotomy that is running around.

To really understand something first you blindly memorize - but that is not enough, once you do examples and exercises using what you blindly memorized you get to understand things quicker, a lot quicker.

Not memorizing stuff and figuring things as you go is mostly recipe for disappointment.

Like in chess - people think that chess players are somehow super intelligent - but being super intelligent without rote memorization of loads of chess settings will not help winning grand master title.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#32

Post by k__ »

dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

Oh, could you go into more detail about math and memoizantion?

What did you do?

I had the impression, these techniques only work well for languages, but I really would love to get better at math.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#33

Post by orangepurple »

kazinator wrote: post #21

It's cute math, but doesn't take into account the inexplicable differences between the retention of seemingly similar facts. Some items stick very well, whereas others suffer from lapses. In my Ankid ecks, I have items that have 10+ year intervals. And some, which were introduced at around the same time as those, which have intervals in months, beaten down by lapses. Anyone who thinks that some simple math leads to i…

I don't recommend allowing Anki items to have an interval of over one year because the crude SM-2 algorithm does not capture the per-item effect of exponential decay in memory. Multiplying interval lengths by per-item ease factors is suboptimal and not the same. Unlike, for instance, ACT-R, which unfortunately has no good publicly available user interface. A good implementation of a neural memory fact model will track strengths of associative memories in addition to the per-item exponential forgetting curve. Keep the Anki intervals capped at one year until something better comes along.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#34

Post by TeeMassive »

xkfm wrote: post #25
dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

That Supermemo article in Wired hooked me. I still remember where I was when I read it and the feeling of reading it. I still use Supermemo daily, and it's one of the programs keeping on Windows. Anki (and every other SRS program I've tried) just doesn't compare as soon as you move beyond a list of flashcards. That said, having used Supermemo for over a decade at this point, the hardest thing about SRS is deciding wh…

Is Supermemo only available as a SaaS?

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#35

Post by Silverback_VII »

ozim wrote: post #31
snowpiercer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think you actually did well in your exams because you really understood it and not because you blindly memorized it ?

That is false dichotomy that is running around. To really understand something first you blindly memorize - but that is not enough, once you do examples and exercises using what you blindly memorized you get to understand things quicker, a lot quicker. Not memorizing stuff and figuring things as you go is mostly recipe for disappointment. Like in chess - people think that chess players are somehow super intelligent -…

>"To really understand something first you blindly memorize"

Because of this sort of advice ppl equate memorization with "not understanding" and cramming.

Never memorize things you don't understand.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#36

Post by orangepurple »

TeeMassive wrote: post #34
xkfm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Supermemo article in Wired hooked me. I still remember where I was when I read it and the feeling of reading it. I still use Supermemo daily, and it's one of the programs keeping on Windows. Anki (and every other SRS program I've tried) just doesn't compare as soon as you move beyond a list of flashcards. That said, having used Supermemo for over a decade at this point, the hardest thing about SRS is deciding wh…

Is Supermemo only available as a SaaS?

No it's primarily an awful Delphi for Windows desktop application that is extremely fragile.

But once you know how to "hold it correctly" it will be your companion for life.

I run it in a virtual machine with all its legacy dependencies like IE. Forget about running it on Wine, it barely works on any version of Windows (lol)

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#37

Post by orangepurple »

Silverback_VII wrote: post #35
ozim wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is false dichotomy that is running around. To really understand something first you blindly memorize - but that is not enough, once you do examples and exercises using what you blindly memorized you get to understand things quicker, a lot quicker. Not memorizing stuff and figuring things as you go is mostly recipe for disappointment. Like in chess - people think that chess players are somehow super intelligent -…

>"To really understand something first you blindly memorize" Because of this sort of advice ppl equate memorization with "not understanding" and cramming. Never memorize things you don't understand.

They must be performed in lock step. Fully agree.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#38

Post by martindbp »

barking_biscuit wrote: post #26

I mean sure. The trouble is in order to keep the review time per day fixed you need to vary the rate at which you introduce new facts, and as time goes on the interval between when you can afford to introduce new facts will grow to be infinite. The model also doesn't account for how you feel about doing this activity. This includes the pain of not doing reviews for several days and then having to catch up. The probab…

Yeah, I've got 9000 reviews waiting for me in my old Chinese Anki deck, at some point you always fall off the wagon. I've changed my mind several times on SRS going back and forth, and my conclusion is that, for language, I think it's better to split your time with 90% on consuming meaningful input and 10% SRS, because learning in context with real content that you're interested in allows you to encode your memories much more efficiently. The problem with pairing available SRS systems with consuming real content is that they don't take into account "natural" repetitions, e.g. when you encountered a word in a movie outside the SRS, so they tend to underestimate how well you know a word. But also since "natural" repetitions are baked into the SRS model via parameters that fit the "average", it also tends to overestimate your knowledge of a lot of other items. Combined, you just have a very inefficient schedule that takes too much of your time for too little gain

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#39

Post by Invictus0 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #7

This is false if memory's are stored physically in the brain. Unless there is an increase in brain volume, this process will eventually hit the Bekenstein bound. I don't care if the upper bound is "effectively infinite," that's not what the proof claimed.

Undoubtedly the worst comment on all of hacker news

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#40

Post by orangepurple »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #7

This is false if memory's are stored physically in the brain. Unless there is an increase in brain volume, this process will eventually hit the Bekenstein bound. I don't care if the upper bound is "effectively infinite," that's not what the proof claimed.

Neural connections are pruned regularly
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