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The 1857 Utah War

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Re: The 1857 Utah War

#41
This is a very very bad description of why Buchanan sent troops to Utah. Utah really was effectively a theocracy and it really was refusing to enforce US law, especially wrt polygamy.

Quoting from https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/artic...,

Contrary to what many have long assumed, Buchanan’s decision to intervene in Utah was not based on the despised Judge W. W. Drummond’s letter of resignation sent from New Orleans in early April 1857. That letter “recited nearly every accusation of Mormon disloyalty and perfidy that had accumulated during the prior ten years” and portrayed Utah as a “territory out of control,” with Governor Brigham Young as “the prime offender” (116). MacKinnon shows that the real catalyst for sending troops to Utah was “the substance and rhetoric in at least three other batches of material received in Washington during the third week of March 1857, weeks before the government was aware of Drummond’s resignation” (100).

The first decisive documents were the Utah legislature’s two memorials urging the appointment of only Mormons to territorial offices. As Utah delegate John M. Bernhisel reported to Young, they were seen as “a declaration of war,” breathing “a defiant spirit” and “not respectful” (106). The second document was a letter sent by Drummond probably before he left California for New Orleans and unrelated to his later letter of resignation. It detailed the impossibility of enforcing federal laws in Utah. Two more letters arrived the same week from Utah Judge John F. Kinney to Attorney General Jeremiah S. Black. Kinney gave more examples of the subversion of U.S. law in Utah and recommended that Buchanan replace Young as governor and establish an army garrison in the territory. The second Kinney letter enclosed a message from Utah’s Surveyor General David H. Burr, which included his dramatic assessment that any new governor risked assassination; Burr, too, recommended a military force.

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#42
post #18

I find Mormons to be truly remarkable people. We visited Salt Lake City recently, and headed out to the Great Salt Lake. Brigham Young wasn’t kidding about “land nobody wants!” There’s almost nothing there, except swarms of flies. (I have no idea what they eat in the middle of the desert. As an aside, my wife’s family apparently went through Utah on the way to Oregon in the wagon train days. They noped the f—k out of…

It doesn't hurt that the Salt Lake is sadly shrinking currently. So it's even worse than it probably was when they arrived.

The Great Salt Lake is not only shrinking/drying, but there's concern over the exposure of dangerous elements that was once underwater

> Layers of earth that were formerly underwater have swirled into dust clouds laced with calcium, sulphur and arsenic, a naturally occurring element linked to cancer and birth defects. Exposed lakebed is also contaminated with residue from copper and silver mining.

> "If you breathe that dust over an extended period of time, like decades or longer, then it can lead to increases in different types of cancer, like lung cancer, bladder cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and such," Perry, from the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, told Reuters on a recent morning on Farmington Bay.

> More than just humans are endangered. Underwater reef-like structures host a micro-organism that is food for brine shrimp, in turn an important food for birds, but the structures dry out and turn gray when exposed.

source for the quote above: https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/utahs-great-sal...

other sources: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/07/climate/salt-lake-city-cl...

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#43
post #40

The Mormons are fascinating for many reasons and highly skilled at building a certain kind of American community. One of the things they are best at is spinning their clean scrubbed version of history, which as with many groups has as many despicable acts as heroic ones. They were indeed quite persecuted on their flight across the continent, but that traumatic origin story doesn't justify to me some of the less attra…

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Re: The 1857 Utah War

#44
post #43
post #40

The Mormons are fascinating for many reasons and highly skilled at building a certain kind of American community. One of the things they are best at is spinning their clean scrubbed version of history, which as with many groups has as many despicable acts as heroic ones. They were indeed quite persecuted on their flight across the continent, but that traumatic origin story doesn't justify to me some of the less attra…

Quoted post unavailable.

The persecution was also rooted in the cult's founder, Joseph Smith, having a thing for "seducing" young girls (14 year olds and even younger) and attempting to add them to his collection of 40 odd wives.

His creepy heavenly-sanctioned pedophilic actions and vibe were not well-received by outsiders.

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#45

There's a historical marker in Echo Canyon about this. It says, essentially, that the army was sent because they thought Utah was in rebellion, but Utah was not actually in rebellion, and therefore it was not right/legal to send the army, and therefore it was legitimate for Utah to resist the army. (It's in Utah, so no surprise, the historical marker is a Mormon-view spin on what happened.) So, wait, let me make sure…

At the time, Utah was located in Mexican territory.

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#47
post #43
post #40

The Mormons are fascinating for many reasons and highly skilled at building a certain kind of American community. One of the things they are best at is spinning their clean scrubbed version of history, which as with many groups has as many despicable acts as heroic ones. They were indeed quite persecuted on their flight across the continent, but that traumatic origin story doesn't justify to me some of the less attra…

Quoted post unavailable.

The history really is fascinating. There were numerous "Mormon Wars" - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_violence#List_of...

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#48

This is a Mormon-biased spin on the history.

Extremely. The Mormons headed west after trying to impose a theocratic dictatorship in Nauvoo, IL. That didn't go well, and their insurrection was put down. https://www.flatplanet.news/post/mormon-militancy-and-the-co... This is just the reprise of the earlier effort.

The Mormons headed west after trying to impose a theocratic dictatorship in Nauvoo, IL.

So that's where the original colony ship name came from in, The Expanse!

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#49
post #18

I find Mormons to be truly remarkable people. We visited Salt Lake City recently, and headed out to the Great Salt Lake. Brigham Young wasn’t kidding about “land nobody wants!” There’s almost nothing there, except swarms of flies. (I have no idea what they eat in the middle of the desert. As an aside, my wife’s family apparently went through Utah on the way to Oregon in the wagon train days. They noped the f—k out of…

I live in Utah just North of SLC and I hear this every once in a while. The Wasatch Mountains here, to the East, are also pretty amazing. When I'm away I always miss these mountains. If you go West you hit the lake, which is low, muddy, stinky, and mostly dead and then there are the salt flats beyond. True, it's a desert, like much of the US, but the mountains are pretty amazing here. The best times to visit are Spri…

I didn’t mean this in a negative way at all. After wading in that lake it’s just remarkable to me how you can create a bustling city out of that environment. Where I come from food literally grows everywhere; it jumps from the river into your nets.

Re: The 1857 Utah War

#50

There's a historical marker in Echo Canyon about this. It says, essentially, that the army was sent because they thought Utah was in rebellion, but Utah was not actually in rebellion, and therefore it was not right/legal to send the army, and therefore it was legitimate for Utah to resist the army. (It's in Utah, so no surprise, the historical marker is a Mormon-view spin on what happened.) So, wait, let me make sure…

At the time, Utah was located in Mexican territory.

At the time the Mormons arrived (1847), it was officially Mexican territory. But the US annexed it in 1848. By the time of the Utah War, it was US territory.

(BTW, the canyon by which they entered the Salt Lake Valley is Emigration Canyon. Emigration is when you leave, immigration is when you arrive. They were consciously leaving the US. They weren't really "going to Mexico", though; they were intending to form their own independent country. But a year later, the US annexed the area.)

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