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The East African Federation experiment

karlsnotes.com

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Re: The East African Federation experiment

#11

Post by dougmwne »

absamma wrote: post #6

Citizen of an East African state here. Don't read too much into this experiment. At best it's a limited regional partnership framework (emphasis on limited), at worst it's a private club for a bunch of crooked politicians. Nothing to see here.

Can you live and work in one of the partner countries without a visa? Can you cross a border without a passport or customs check? Can you ship goods to another country without paying any duties?

I understand there can be a lot of reasons for criticism, but it seems these are real advantages that regular people could take advantage of.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#12

Post by realce »

BjoernKW wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently heard a quote: “These countries aren't underdeveloped, they are overexploited.” EDIT: Found the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14#t=3m

I fail to see how this argument helps the countries - or rather the people - in question, that is unless you subscribe to the Marxist idea (which probably applies to the lecturer, given he's apparently well-known for his Marxist writings) that the economy essentially is a zero-sum game, in which invariably somebody has to lose for somebody else to win. In my opinion, that's just a defeatist view because it means poor…

> Rather than dwell on the past, we should try and find ways to create a better future.

A bold prescription! You should be king of Africa.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#14

Post by oblio »

teddyh wrote: post #3
oblio wrote: post #2

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but as the EU shows (and the US in its Confederation incarnation in the 18th century), creating a super-state is not easy. I wish them luck, we badly need a large and developed country in Africa.

I recently heard a quote: “These countries aren't underdeveloped, they are overexploited.” EDIT: Found the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14#t=3m

You just need 1 or a few to reach "escape velocity", though.

Europe was ok-ish until ~1700, then Britain reached the Industrial Revolution, then everybody in about a 2000km radius suddenly leveled up. Kind of funny how geography and culture work.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#15

Post by zozbot234 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently heard a quote: “These countries aren't underdeveloped, they are overexploited.” EDIT: Found the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14#t=3m

I fail to see how this argument helps the countries - or rather the people - in question, that is unless you subscribe to the Marxist idea (which probably applies to the lecturer, given he's apparently well-known for his Marxist writings) that the economy essentially is a zero-sum game, in which invariably somebody has to lose for somebody else to win. In my opinion, that's just a defeatist view because it means poor…

Overexploitation is a very real dynamic in colonial and post-colonial countries. As shown by the resource curse (aka "Dutch Disease"), countries with the largest, most valuable natural resource endowments tend to be the ones where average folks are worst off.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#16

Post by trollytroll69 »

dougmwne wrote: post #11
absamma wrote: post #6

Citizen of an East African state here. Don't read too much into this experiment. At best it's a limited regional partnership framework (emphasis on limited), at worst it's a private club for a bunch of crooked politicians. Nothing to see here.

Can you live and work in one of the partner countries without a visa? Can you cross a border without a passport or customs check? Can you ship goods to another country without paying any duties? I understand there can be a lot of reasons for criticism, but it seems these are real advantages that regular people could take advantage of.

You can cross without a visa and there's an East African passport.The taxes still need to be aligned. If it accomplishes nothing else but a small measure of stability in the Congo then the EAC will be a success in my book.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#17

Post by teddyh »

BjoernKW wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently heard a quote: “These countries aren't underdeveloped, they are overexploited.” EDIT: Found the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14#t=3m

I fail to see how this argument helps the countries - or rather the people - in question, that is unless you subscribe to the Marxist idea (which probably applies to the lecturer, given he's apparently well-known for his Marxist writings) that the economy essentially is a zero-sum game, in which invariably somebody has to lose for somebody else to win. In my opinion, that's just a defeatist view because it means poor…

> Rather than dwell on the past, we should try and find ways to create a better future.

Of course. But the solution differs depending on whether the problem today is underdevelopment or overexploitation. Most current thinking seems to tend to try to fix the former problem, not the latter. But whatever they are doing, it does not seem to be helping; these countries have been “developing” for 50 years. You’d think if they were simply underdeveloped, they would have developed by now.

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#18

Post by permo-w »

teddyh wrote: post #3
oblio wrote: post #2

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but as the EU shows (and the US in its Confederation incarnation in the 18th century), creating a super-state is not easy. I wish them luck, we badly need a large and developed country in Africa.

I recently heard a quote: “These countries aren't underdeveloped, they are overexploited.” EDIT: Found the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14#t=3m

are they not both?

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#19

Post by pepperonipizza »

teddyh wrote: post #17
BjoernKW wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this argument helps the countries - or rather the people - in question, that is unless you subscribe to the Marxist idea (which probably applies to the lecturer, given he's apparently well-known for his Marxist writings) that the economy essentially is a zero-sum game, in which invariably somebody has to lose for somebody else to win. In my opinion, that's just a defeatist view because it means poor…

> Rather than dwell on the past, we should try and find ways to create a better future. Of course. But the solution differs depending on whether the problem today is underdevelopment or overexploitation. Most current thinking seems to tend to try to fix the former problem, not the latter. But whatever they are doing, it does not seem to be helping; these countries have been “developing” for 50 years. You’d think if t…

Easy trick they could do to develop quicker and lesser the level of curruption: give women more rights and power. Europe is certainly not hindering them

Re: The East African Federation experiment

#20

Post by ZeroGravitas »

This is reminiscent of the Brexiter take on the EU.

Doing stuff that helps big business, good.

Doing stuff that helps people, bad.

(Obviously your rank and file Brexiter believes the exact opposite of this, sort of e.g. we don't want fundamental human rights if it means a famous murderer gets to vote in our not even proportional system, and "it's all useless red tape about how bendy bananas can be" referring to documents written by the banana industry to make their life easier).

Slightly suspicious that the abstract of this link doesn't seem to support the claim:

> and studies suggest that the common external tariff of the EAC has not always been used to improve the economic welfare of citizens.

And it's a weak wishy-washy claim anyway. Sounds like they don't like the tariff but don't have any good reason to support that belief/preference.

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