Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

variety.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 105 posts

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#51

Post by tptacek »

cmm wrote: post #8
arthurcolle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was a pretty good adaptation! What didn't you like about it?

well, let's see: bog-standard cgi, overbearing music that sounds like music in any other big recent(ish) "fantasy" production, stilted dialogue laced with awkward exposition, nobody among the cast seems to know how to fucking act (except the guy playing John Dee, he's excellent though also exactly the same as everywhere else, so he just steals every scene he's in), that stupid raven, shall I go on. still watchable, w…

The music is a definitely weak point.

The guy playing John Dee is David Thewlis, one of the best cinema actors of all time.

Matthew the Raven is not well handled (he's not well-handled in the book either!), and his dialog is unearned and superficial. "Dreams don't die" is the Goonies wishing well speech repurposed. I groaned audibly.

Episodes 2-4 were interesting as a fan of the books (though not of Preludes & Nocturnes, the weak first book), but if I weren't one of those, I'd have been happier skipping them. Episode 5 is good; episode 6 is unimpeachable.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#52

Post by falcolas »

tptacek wrote: post #47

The issue with this season is that while the comics are beloved, the first book is quite weak; Gaiman was still finding his voice, still experimenting with what the books were going to be, and constrained by editorial requirements from DC. The first several issues are full of cringey tie-ins to other DC IP, and the horror elements are forced (The Sandman is not a horror comic series). If you're not a Sandman stan, my…

The link hasn’t totally been severed. Constantine is still present.

My only two gripes are a bad 2.0 sound mix - too much dynamic range, even with compression turned on - and Lucifer was lackluster. Too much “corporate CEO” and not enough fallen angel. Should have pulled in the TV show actor.

But Death, Desire, Matthew, Lucien, even Morpheus himself all rock.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#53

Post by falcolas »

brazzy wrote: post #45
greymalik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaiman has been pretty vocal [1] about his support for the casting: “Desire's nonbinary identification is so textual that one supporter asked Gaiman if he thought critics of these castings had even read The Sandman. "I don't think so, no," the author responded. When another asked, "Wasn't Desire… always non-binary…??," Gaiman replied, "Well, yes. But you'd have to have read the comics to know that. And the shouty peo…

I really don't think it's Desire anyone is annoyed about, and using that as an example to dismiss the criticism only weakens the dismissal. Lucifer... sure, he's canonically without genitals anyway and decidedly uninterested in things like gender norms - and I'm actually excited to see Gwendolyn Christie portray the character. Casting a black woman as Death goes directly against Gaiman's explicitly stated concept of…

Lucifer is the only casting so far that hasn’t resonated with me. She felt more like a corporate CEO than fallen angel. And the stereotypical bat wings… meh

The rest have done really well, even Death (who I didn’t get good vibes from in the lead up).

EDIT: Despair didn’t do much for me either. More emo teen than avatar of suffering.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#54

Post by cgrealy »

probably_wrong wrote: post #19
arthurcolle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was a pretty good adaptation! What didn't you like about it?

I don't like writing about things I haven't seen (not a Netflix subscriber), but since this is the Internet after all I'd like to discuss the "Morpheus vs Lucifer" scene that was uploaded yesterday [1] and that no one should watch unless they like their episodes spoiled. The setting is less creative/weird than the comic (a night club in the original), a demon character is gone (probably to simplify the story), and th…

Just to be pedantic: the demon is actually there, he just chooses Lucifer as his champion, which makes sense from a show perspective as it gives Lucifer (a major character later) more to do in that episode.

I don't believe the battle is much shorter (having recently re-read the comics), but I agree the pep talk from Matthew was unnecessary.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#55

Post by tptacek »

falcolas wrote: post #52
tptacek wrote: post #47

The issue with this season is that while the comics are beloved, the first book is quite weak; Gaiman was still finding his voice, still experimenting with what the books were going to be, and constrained by editorial requirements from DC. The first several issues are full of cringey tie-ins to other DC IP, and the horror elements are forced (The Sandman is not a horror comic series). If you're not a Sandman stan, my…

The link hasn’t totally been severed. Constantine is still present. My only two gripes are a bad 2.0 sound mix - too much dynamic range, even with compression turned on - and Lucifer was lackluster. Too much “corporate CEO” and not enough fallen angel. Should have pulled in the TV show actor. But Death, Desire, Matthew, Lucien, even Morpheus himself all rock.

The Constantine of the series isn't the Constantine of the book; the Constantine of the book is the protagonist of Hellblazer, and he isn't hundreds of years old. The Constantine of the series has a thru-line going back to Hob Gadling; she's entirely contained in the Sandman story.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#56

Post by cgrealy »

brazzy wrote: post #45
greymalik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaiman has been pretty vocal [1] about his support for the casting: “Desire's nonbinary identification is so textual that one supporter asked Gaiman if he thought critics of these castings had even read The Sandman. "I don't think so, no," the author responded. When another asked, "Wasn't Desire… always non-binary…??," Gaiman replied, "Well, yes. But you'd have to have read the comics to know that. And the shouty peo…

I really don't think it's Desire anyone is annoyed about, and using that as an example to dismiss the criticism only weakens the dismissal. Lucifer... sure, he's canonically without genitals anyway and decidedly uninterested in things like gender norms - and I'm actually excited to see Gwendolyn Christie portray the character. Casting a black woman as Death goes directly against Gaiman's explicitly stated concept of…

Gaiman has publicly stated that he loves the actress as Death.

Someone then complained about disrespecting the artist and the model, and the artist responded he loved it too (the model has passed, but the artist, who was a close friend, said she would have loved it as well).

I did watch that clip from The Sound of Her Wings, and I thought she nailed the kindness aspect of Death. I do hope we'll also get some of fun, hopeful aspects too, but I haven't got t othose episodes yet.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#57

Post by [deleted] »

brazzy wrote: post #45
greymalik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaiman has been pretty vocal [1] about his support for the casting: “Desire's nonbinary identification is so textual that one supporter asked Gaiman if he thought critics of these castings had even read The Sandman. "I don't think so, no," the author responded. When another asked, "Wasn't Desire… always non-binary…??," Gaiman replied, "Well, yes. But you'd have to have read the comics to know that. And the shouty peo…

I really don't think it's Desire anyone is annoyed about, and using that as an example to dismiss the criticism only weakens the dismissal. Lucifer... sure, he's canonically without genitals anyway and decidedly uninterested in things like gender norms - and I'm actually excited to see Gwendolyn Christie portray the character. Casting a black woman as Death goes directly against Gaiman's explicitly stated concept of…

[deleted]

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#58

Post by cgrealy »

brazzy wrote: post #45
greymalik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaiman has been pretty vocal [1] about his support for the casting: “Desire's nonbinary identification is so textual that one supporter asked Gaiman if he thought critics of these castings had even read The Sandman. "I don't think so, no," the author responded. When another asked, "Wasn't Desire… always non-binary…??," Gaiman replied, "Well, yes. But you'd have to have read the comics to know that. And the shouty peo…

I really don't think it's Desire anyone is annoyed about, and using that as an example to dismiss the criticism only weakens the dismissal. Lucifer... sure, he's canonically without genitals anyway and decidedly uninterested in things like gender norms - and I'm actually excited to see Gwendolyn Christie portray the character. Casting a black woman as Death goes directly against Gaiman's explicitly stated concept of…

Oh and Lucien as a black woman... I ask why not? How does it hurt the character? The actor playing Lucien is is perfectly fine, so why not add some more diversity to the cast?

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#59

Post by dogma1138 »

tptacek wrote: post #50
probably_wrong wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like writing about things I haven't seen (not a Netflix subscriber), but since this is the Internet after all I'd like to discuss the "Morpheus vs Lucifer" scene that was uploaded yesterday [1] and that no one should watch unless they like their episodes spoiled. The setting is less creative/weird than the comic (a night club in the original), a demon character is gone (probably to simplify the story), and th…

The demons are gone because they weren't actually Gaiman's; they were DC IP. The show is going out of its way to cut ties with the rest of DC IP; there are things (like Johanna Constantine) done I think solely for the purpose of disentangling Morpheus from the DCU. Later Also, can we as adults with the books in far in the rear-view mirror (I mean, for those of us who'd say that) all not agree that the demon "contest"…

There were quite a few Demons in the show tho playing mostly minor roles.

I was actually surprised they didn’t changed it even further considering how it conflicts with Fox/Netflix’s Lucifer which according to the blogosphere departs quite a bit from the source material but it was quite a fun show, and despite things getting a bit old at some point especially when it moved away from its monster of the week format it’s clear that the entire production and cast loved working on it which is why it constantly got extended.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#60

Post by tptacek »

tialaramex wrote: post #32
greymalik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaiman has been pretty vocal [1] about his support for the casting: “Desire's nonbinary identification is so textual that one supporter asked Gaiman if he thought critics of these castings had even read The Sandman. "I don't think so, no," the author responded. When another asked, "Wasn't Desire… always non-binary…??," Gaiman replied, "Well, yes. But you'd have to have read the comics to know that. And the shouty peo…

I'm going to guess that a bunch of people don't like the choice for Death. But the thing about Death is that she's such the archetype that from then until now you could never move at a goth club for all the women who are sure they're Death. Like, try announcing from the DJ booth, "Has anybody lost a silver ankh?" and watch like two dozen women glance down between their boobs to check theirs is still hanging around th…

Death is the most faithfully adapted character in the whole show, so if someone's complaining about that, they're telling on themselves. They nailed Death.

I was pleasantly surprised by that; there's a (somewhat well-regarded) audiobook adaptation of the books, with James McAvoy as Morpheus and Kat Dennings (the older daughter in 40 Year Old Virgin, and, by appearances, a straight-out-of-central-casting choice for Death), and Death does not work at all in it.

Post reply on HN