Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21 • Hacker News Board

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#241

Post by mannicken » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 11:52 AM UTC

_THE_PLAGUE wrote: post #209

Nessuss wrote: post #138

I hope he had a cryonics contract. .... In reading the above, some people might think it insensitive to 'peddle' this here, and I almost censored myself because of that. But that's not helpful at all. People are dying unnecessarily because they don't understand physics, cognitive neuroscience, and the possibilities the future allows. May he live again conditional on him being cryo-preserved. Otherwise, it is sad news…

With due respect, cryonics won't work. Why? Because "I am a strange loop" as Hofstadter would put it. We are NOT the code. We are the code execution. Think of the human subject as a really complicated, recursive sort of while(1) loop. When the program ends, we end. You can freeze the source code all you want - possibly even restart it but there is no reason I know of to think that such a restarted program would be "m…

So DNA would be 'the code', and our environment would be 'the input' and we would be the code processing the input? Cool.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#242

Post by artmageddon » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 12:05 PM UTC

necro wrote: post #211

dchuk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, an outgoing personality is a great way to protect yourself from people asking you the very painful question of "what's wrong"...I know now, after wrestling with depression for years, that sometimes it's harder to face your depression and explain your pain to others than it is to simply be depressed in the first place. What better way to defend yourself than by acting exactly opposite of how you really…

If someone is at that stage where you are contemplating this, here is a tip....just do it. By that I mean commit suicide of your _current_ life, not of life. Most of what weights someone down are the fears, struggles, embarrassment, your peer groups, jobs, etc. If you can't find a way through it, just leave it. Give all your stuff away, give away your money, give up your computer, leave your friends and family, pack…

Someone on 4chan(I know)wrote a comment similar to yours regarding suicide, saying that "If you're willing to give up your life and kill yourself, your life is now yours and the world is your oyster." The comment was hotly debated on Reddit, and one school of thought shared among a large set of people was that this way of thinking is absolutely false. A person who is so unwilling to go through life that they would consider taking it isn't going to be able to just pack his stuff and go to Africa - the depression has set in so badly that they can't even get out of bed to face the day. These people feel their suffering is so great that others would be better off if that person weren't around so that they didn't have to suffer because of him.

Of course it's different for everyone, but it's easy to say "Sell your possessions and go forth" - not everyone can do it though, being not willing or able.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#243

Post by lloeki » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 12:34 PM UTC

robg wrote: post #108

edw519 wrote: post #89

Horrible. This news is so tragic I really can't focus on anything else now. Which is probably the way it should be. Our community stresses the importance of achievement, success, and technology so much that it's easy to forget what's really most important: each other. Sometimes it takes terrible news like this to jerk us back to that reality. I never knew Ilya, but if any of his friends of family visits this forum, p…

It's not just our community. There are twice as many suicides as homicides in the U.S.[1] Yet, every nightly newscast is sure to cover the murders. How many talk about the suicides? Worse, suicide is the leading cause of death among college students [2]. It's an epidemic that no one talks about. We've already lost two freshman at MIT this year. [1] http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/09/01/suicide-vs-homicide-b... [2] h…

In France there is four times more deaths from suicide than deaths in a car crash. Yet we have countless cops constantly roaming around, and millions spent on automated speed cameras, in the name of a policy vowed to reduce "unacceptable" life losses, but ignores the fact that 32k people actually die here per year out of sheer helplessness and despair. Somehow I can't help but think that people up there are missing something when they keep throwing money at compressing a number resulting from statistically ineluctable collisions of numerous moving objects (whose seriousness and frequency drops could just as well be explained by combined and massive improvements made to car safety, making the policy look like even more futile), while a little education of people would actually help some of us recognize early and/or late signs of depression on third parties, allowing for professional help to be reached soon enough. Depression is a bit like drowning: it actually looks nothing like you think it does, but one can be trained to recognize it [0] and reach for competent help accordingly.

[0]: http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#244

Post by Tycho » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

This is now the top story on the front page of Yahoo UK, with a large picture of Ilya. I'm not sure what to make of that.

I suppose one thing we can learn here is to be more sensitive about other peoples' work. Sometimes tech-related articles/comments/rants take a very harsh tone, and even though it might be valid criticism, it's easy to forget that some developer might have poured his/her heart and soul into what you're dismissing (or even ridiculing).

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#245

Post by lxt » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 6:02 PM UTC

necro wrote: post #211

dchuk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, an outgoing personality is a great way to protect yourself from people asking you the very painful question of "what's wrong"...I know now, after wrestling with depression for years, that sometimes it's harder to face your depression and explain your pain to others than it is to simply be depressed in the first place. What better way to defend yourself than by acting exactly opposite of how you really…

If someone is at that stage where you are contemplating this, here is a tip....just do it. By that I mean commit suicide of your _current_ life, not of life. Most of what weights someone down are the fears, struggles, embarrassment, your peer groups, jobs, etc. If you can't find a way through it, just leave it. Give all your stuff away, give away your money, give up your computer, leave your friends and family, pack…

The problem with this strategy is what Buckaroo Banzai said: "No matter where you go, there you are."

In other words, a lot of the time the things that are making you unhappy are internal: lack of confidence, self-esteem, self respect, or non-functional brain chemistry. Sure, if there's something weighing you down (a bad relationship or job) then change it. But if you're unhappy with everything in your life then what you need to change is yourself.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#246

Post by scorpion032 » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #141

dchuk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, an outgoing personality is a great way to protect yourself from people asking you the very painful question of "what's wrong"...I know now, after wrestling with depression for years, that sometimes it's harder to face your depression and explain your pain to others than it is to simply be depressed in the first place. What better way to defend yourself than by acting exactly opposite of how you really…

I'm sorry man, but that sounds awful. I'm a depression alumni with you. I did it all for a good 7 years - hopelessness, suicidal thoughts, then medication, then "fuck medication, I'm fine!" and "fuck medication! It doesn't work!", then heavy drug use and addiction, and counseling throughout. The feeling can be beyond words and the energy needed to talk about it seems beyond us but I've gone the pretend route where yo…

Fwiw, I believe depression has certain deepness of thought and getting over with it is better than not getting it at all in the first place.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#247

Post by teeja » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 12:47 AM UTC

Sometimes deep (non-organic) depression can be a clue to the revelation that you've been untrue to your own nature. The depression is an opportunity to review what you've been doing, what you've been missing, and make plans to recreate your life in a way that's more positively rewarding.

It's awful to see young lives wasted in this way... whether they're 'promising' in conventional ways or not. Many people have made it through The Abyss to go on to great things - which can include things that are completely unimportant to society at large. No need to be engulfed by the values of others. Be true to yourself.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#248

Post by kirbyspit » Sat, Nov 19, 2011, 12:34 AM UTC

Regarding telling suicidal people to think about the people who care about them before taking their lives...some suicidal people don't have anyone who cares about them. That's why they're suicidal.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#249

Post by singular » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 4:31 PM UTC

necro wrote: post #211

dchuk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, an outgoing personality is a great way to protect yourself from people asking you the very painful question of "what's wrong"...I know now, after wrestling with depression for years, that sometimes it's harder to face your depression and explain your pain to others than it is to simply be depressed in the first place. What better way to defend yourself than by acting exactly opposite of how you really…

If someone is at that stage where you are contemplating this, here is a tip....just do it. By that I mean commit suicide of your _current_ life, not of life. Most of what weights someone down are the fears, struggles, embarrassment, your peer groups, jobs, etc. If you can't find a way through it, just leave it. Give all your stuff away, give away your money, give up your computer, leave your friends and family, pack…

This is dangerous bullshit, frankly. The big problem with it is that in serious depression the source of depression is not your immediate circumstances, rather it's something deeper/more pervasive and by running away you are not actually solving anything.

The experience of clinical depression is so unutterably horrible that unless you've experienced it you can't know what it's like. There is a huge gulf between moderate depression and the clinical variety. In the depths of serious depression you barely have the energy to get out of bed let alone help anybody, and suggesting that somebody ought to give up aspirations to help these poor, helpless Africans (which country in Africa I might ask - I think natives of African nations might take offence here) is actually more likely to inspire feelings of guilt and isolation than a sense of hope.

The best solution for somebody experiencing issues is to seek professional guidance and not take romanticised + frankly fanciful advice from a random person on a news site.

Sorry to be harsh, but this could affect somebody out there and I think it needs to be said.

Re: Diaspora Co-Founder Ilya Zhitomirskiy Passes Away At 21

#250

Post by singular » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 4:37 PM UTC

hugh3 wrote: post #235

necro wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss the point. You would have already jumped off a cliff. This is one thing you do before. Of course try all the other things. But if you _are_ on the ledge, consider this before. If you think about it, is the consideration of this is similar to "who will find your body, how will they feel". It's one additional stop gap to prevent the worse outcome.

I don't think that's how it works. (Also, no offence, but I'm disinclined to take suicide-prevention advice from anyone named "necro"...)

I can confirm (at least in my experience + the experience of others I know who suffer from serious clinical depression) this is not how (serious) depression works.

I sincerely doubt it would make any difference, largely because of how you feel about life + yourself (it would require an acceptance of capability of doing such things) + the point of trying to help such a horrid world. I think the more immediate consideration of those people finding your body, etc. will be more effective as that's something undeniable and forces you to consider others in a non-fanciful way.