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Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#301

Post by eru »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #238
eru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As this article pointed out, there's a vast asymmetry of information, which prevents an efficient market, even in theory. What kind of theory are you using here? There might be some theoretical reasons to expect that symmetric information (and a few other conditions) will lead to an efficient market. But that doesn't mean that a pre-existing information symmetry is necessary for an efficient market. The classic exa…

"But that doesn't mean that a pre-existing information symmetry is necessary for an efficient market" The literal textbook prerequisite for efficient market is not just informatuon symmetry, its perfect information. You shoupd know that if you are making 'free market can do no wrong' arguments. Its like if all arguments about physics where made by 1st year university students that never moves beyond 'a hypothetical 1…

> The literal textbook prerequisite for efficient market is not just informatuon symmetry, its perfect information.

Please point me to that textbook.

Who says that free markets can do no wrong ever?

(I'm mostly saying that some markets might have some problems, sure. But most of the time most real world regulation dreamt up by real world politicians and implemented by real world civil servants etc is unlikely to improve them.)

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#302

Post by eru »

benlivengood wrote: post #170
eru wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to assume that businesses are some kind of mythical, omnipotent entities? In contrast, for many of my needs, I find it relatively easy to buy high quality items even where there's a vast information asymmetry, as long as I am willing to shell out for products from companies with stellar reputations. Granted that's neither foolproof nor applicable for every product or service. It can also get really expensive…

> In contrast, for many of my needs, I find it relatively easy to buy high quality items even where there's a vast information asymmetry, as long as I am willing to shell out for products from companies with stellar reputations. So it's not an efficient market because of the premium you have to pay for reputation.

Huh? What?

What's the definition of 'efficient' you want to be using here?

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#303

Post by ClumsyPilot »

eru wrote: post #300
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thep problem with Market Extremists, is they they are so high on their own supply, they do not notice when they make statements that outright contradict the real world we live in. They live in a separate fantasy land, just like communists do. Fist falsifiable statement about e-waste policies - if it is so easy to read a company's e-waste policy, could you tell me which companies had policies that said "we will ship t…

Majority of people _say_ that they prefer removable batteries. But what people say and what they actually do are different things.

If you are going to accuse consumers of being inconsistent or dishonest, then what about the companies?

What manufacturers think and what they want us to think are different things.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#304

Post by hanche »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #288
johnwalkr wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

usbc chargers are not supposed to even have 5V output until a device requests it. For 5V at various currents, “charge configuration” resistors can be used at the device. For higher voltages an active negotiation is required. Cheap devices based on old products often omit the 2 resistors (literally worth under $0.01 each) and this only charge when connected to a usb-a charger, which always has 5v output. Depending on…

> usbc chargers are not supposed to even have 5V output until a device requests it. I did not know that, thanks. I was expecting USB-C chargers to work in "dumb 5V mode" by default. I guess that could be to avoid problems if you connect two chargers together?

I think that is why usb-a (male) to usb-c (female) adapters are not supposed to exist. They might let you connect two usb-a chargers together using a usb-c cable, and they are not designed to tolerate that.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#305

Post by vladvasiliu »

glowingly wrote: post #263
vladvasiliu wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are cars starting to have USB-C PD connectors? The most "advanced" I've seen are wireless chargers. My dad's 2021 Toyota only has USB-A.

My Thinkpad, depending on BIOS revision, will trickle charge from a 5V1A charger. Not great, but not horrible. I know Vaio used to advertise that as a feature.

That's a great feature.

When I got a new HP laptop with USB-C charging a few years back, I hoped it would support that, too. It didn't. My current one doesn't, either.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#306

Post by dreamcompiler »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #237
copperx wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra credit for being able to charge your laptop easily in the car. Before this, you needed either a power inverter or a special DC connector.

Are cars starting to have USB-C PD connectors? The most "advanced" I've seen are wireless chargers. My dad's 2021 Toyota only has USB-A.

My Tesla 2021 ModelY came with 4 USB-C ports (plus one in the glove compartment which is only for the camera memory stick). They support PD but they only go up to 9V at about 25W, which seems pretty dumb for a car that contains a 75kWh battery. They'll recharge a laptop but slowly. Still, I'm glad they exist.

The car has a two-phone Qi charger as well.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#307

Post by benlivengood »

eru wrote: post #302
benlivengood wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast, for many of my needs, I find it relatively easy to buy high quality items even where there's a vast information asymmetry, as long as I am willing to shell out for products from companies with stellar reputations. So it's not an efficient market because of the premium you have to pay for reputation.

Huh? What? What's the definition of 'efficient' you want to be using here?

"The efficient-market hypothesis is a hypothesis in financial economics that states that asset prices reflect all available information." from Wikipedia.

There is a huge price spread on nearly-identical products because people don't have enough information to determine which of the various supposedly equivalent products available are more reliable, efficient, safe, etc. and this is reflected in people spending more than necessary.

If, in fact, a particular brand was consistently more reliable than others but priced at a premium then with perfect information everyone would know this and a new manufacturer could introduce a similarly-reliable product at a price point within the spread and everyone would buy that instead.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#308

Post by dreamcompiler »

wodenokoto wrote: post #265
deathanatos wrote: post #87

It's not even just batteries. Every laptop I've ever owned comes with a AC to DC converter. Every laptop I've ever owned has outlived that AC-to-DC converter. Every converter that has failed has failed in exactly the same way: the plug/cord connection at the laptop end becomes unreliable. And every single one of them, across a range of manufacturers, has had the cord not be detachable from the brick. So what could ha…

I’ve read that LED light bulbs have the same problem. The LED will easily last 25 years, as written on the box, but the electronics that power the LED won’t. I haven’t owned an LED bulb long enough to see this myself, so take it with a grain of salt.

I've started retrofitting my table lamps with 12v "RV" LEDs that have standard Edison bases. That way I can use my own power supply -- either a 12v wall wart or USB-C with PD and a 12v trigger.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#309

Post by dreamcompiler »

tomrod wrote: post #52
pixl97 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any number you see on Amazon is a lie except from a very limited number if sellers.

Which ones are credible?

In the category of flashlights, Anker seems credible. Several others are lying by a factor of 100.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6q_0wxzClkg

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#310

Post by y42 »

emj wrote: post #235
intothemild wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this. USB-C can on do the following on the same cable at the same time 1. Charge 2. Data 3. Video Your power cable can 1. Charge How is that "orders of magnitude" worse?

The USB-C connector is a lot easier to break than a normal power connector, it's also pretty fidgety to get right when you fix the connection on the laptop side. The fixability can be done better than normal charging ports, I've done a USB-C daughter board swap in about 2 hours of total time (research, ordering, mounting). The normal way though is doing soldering surface mounted USB-C connectors which is not somethin…

Sure. But didn't we just agreed that the power adapter doesn't live that long? I better buy a new USB cable every year, that covers power, data and more than a power cable that covers power only for three times the price - if not more - every two years. Not to mention all the other advantages.
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