I've worked with startups in varying capacities for 6 years and my schedule is always tight. Jack Dorsey represents the limit, but I wonder whether the topical schedule (Mon: management, Tues: product, etc.) is a good organizational tactic for those of us who wear many hats.
Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
121–130 of 139 posts
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#122Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square, 0 hours at life, daily. In other words Jack is free to do whatever he likes, but it is not a good example for most of us. I'll cite a very short poetry by a Sicilian poet called Salvatore Quasimodo: "Everyone stands alone on the heart of the earth / transfixed by a ray of sunshine / and it is suddenly night"
I prefer "Work to live, don't live to work."
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty familiar with Jack's situation. Yes, this is indeed true, now. For a time he was splitting one day on / one day off at each company. Frankly, Jack has very little time outside of his work, but I wouldn't say that he doesn't have a life. His work is his life and they are closely intertwined. This is great, since it means he's quite passionate about both product sets and the quality of his companies' net out…
Square sounds like a terrible place to work, then. We should stop giving startups free passes for demanding ridiculous hours out of employees in the name of equity, when they usually end up screwing their employees out of it anyway.
I think startup politics generally reflects the power structure surrounding it; whether that be founders or investors that hold a relatively big stake in an organization, or the society surrounding it.
The US is not always the most meritocratic or egalitarian environment, and it seems that those that latch onto or come into some power tend to hold to it very tightly and don't share with those around them.
Equity, unless you're very lucky or diligent, often doesn't equate to much. I think, too often, folks tend to place too much emphasis on equity. The terms and value of which are not often immediately obvious to the recipient and can get diluted over time. Twitter's on what... round G now?
Ultimately, starting a startup is a big uphill slog. At the end of the day, everyone needs to put in some level of herculean effort from time to time if it's going to work.
The trick is figuring out how to effectively value the things that each contributor is best at. If you're working in an organization that primarily values software engineers, it can be hard to get recognition as a visual designer.
In an organization that primarily (and sometimes only) values and recognizes software engineers that make things you can see or touch, it can even be hard to make it as a systems plumber or kernel hacker.
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Square sounds like a terrible place to work, then. We should stop giving startups free passes for demanding ridiculous hours out of employees in the name of equity, when they usually end up screwing their employees out of it anyway.
I think startup politics generally reflects the power structure surrounding it; whether that be founders or investors that hold a relatively big stake in an organization, or the society surrounding it. The US is not always the most meritocratic or egalitarian environment, and it seems that those that latch onto or come into some power tend to hold to it very tightly and don't share with those around them. Equity, unl…
[deleted]
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Square sounds like a terrible place to work, then. We should stop giving startups free passes for demanding ridiculous hours out of employees in the name of equity, when they usually end up screwing their employees out of it anyway.
I think startup politics generally reflects the power structure surrounding it; whether that be founders or investors that hold a relatively big stake in an organization, or the society surrounding it. The US is not always the most meritocratic or egalitarian environment, and it seems that those that latch onto or come into some power tend to hold to it very tightly and don't share with those around them. Equity, unl…
>>I think startup politics generally reflects the power structure surrounding it; whether that be founders or investors that hold a relatively big stake in an organization, or the society surrounding it.
Its not about who holds power or has a bigger stake. Its just that people need to stick to the promises made and pay up as agreed. Beyond that its your usual economics.
Just because investors have put in the money its no reason for them or a senior executive who just joined the company and realized cheating developers on equity can help him earn another millions during the IPO, gets a chance to redefine what meritocracy according to him is. And its no reason, to suddenly consider all developer contribution useless without any merit to deserve stocks and that only some one with a Business designation next to their names are the only ones to deserve stock.
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
US employment law is nuts, here in NZ you'd have an amazingly hard time firing people who don't work the 80hr weeks you wish they did.
How many startups come from NZ? The point here isn't "employment law", it's the fact that in the USA (generally, in the private sector) employment is considered a contract, not an entitlement. If people at Square don't like the environment, they are free to find another job. Similarly, if Dorsey doesn't like an employee's output for any reason, or "the cut of his jib" for that matter, he pays him up to the day and fi…
Everyone here likes to believe there's a bit of a startup boom in Wellington at the moment - government R&D grants and the Grow Wellington business incubator certainly seem to have gone a long way towards helping the culture along. In any case you can't walk down Cuba St without running into people from all the different tech startups these days. It's great, since fifteen years ago the only other employment options in this town were cafés or the public sector.
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
US employment law is nuts, here in NZ you'd have an amazingly hard time firing people who don't work the 80hr weeks you wish they did.
How many startups come from NZ? The point here isn't "employment law", it's the fact that in the USA (generally, in the private sector) employment is considered a contract, not an entitlement. If people at Square don't like the environment, they are free to find another job. Similarly, if Dorsey doesn't like an employee's output for any reason, or "the cut of his jib" for that matter, he pays him up to the day and fi…
> How many startups come from NZ?
Quite a few startups come from the UK, Ireland and Germany; in all three countries the alleged behavior by Square would be highly illegal.
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
US employment law is nuts, here in NZ you'd have an amazingly hard time firing people who don't work the 80hr weeks you wish they did.
I'm not sure what you mean about "US employment law is nuts". If you are an hourly employee, you get paid so many dollars/hours, for the number of hours you work, and after you work so many hours a day, you get paid overtime. If you are exempt (Salaried) - you basically work when your manager tells you to. I've been at (several) companies where we had 3-4 month death marches with _everyone_ working late and on weeken…
> If you are exempt (Salaried) - you basically work when your manager tells you to. I've been at (several) companies where we had 3-4 month death marches with _everyone_ working late and on weekends in the office to push the ball over the line.
This is probably the point of confusion. In most of Europe, at any rate, salaried employees are subject to the working time directive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#129That is simply unbelievable, but Im not sure you can sustain a healthy life with with 16 hour work days
I did 80+ hours per week for years in medical school, residency, and fellowship. Many people in medicine make a career of it. It's not as unusual as you think. There is certainly a fair argument to be made that it's not particularly healthy or a good idea, but I can assure you that for some people it's quite sustainable.
> I did 80+ hours per week for years in medical school, residency, and fellowship. Many people in medicine make a career of it. It's not as unusual as you think.
Possibly a bad example; in most developed countries the medical professions have amongst the highest rates of depression, suicide and divorce.
Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily
#130I posted this in the other thread about his hours: Being a manager and accutely aware of legal ramifications of hours worked (boring I know), does anyone have any insight into whether there is something in the US akin to the European Worktime Directive? Over here (UK, but the E.U as a whole) the average working week is 40 hours by law, and the worker must opt in to be eligble to work upto a maximum of 70 hours per we…
> Over here (UK, but the E.U as a whole) the average working week is 40 hours by law, and the worker must opt in to be eligble to work upto a maximum of 70 hours per week.
In Ireland, you can't even opt into a 70 hour week; it's flat-out illegal (though there is a system where you can do 96 hours per 14 days, or something, without necessarily equal allocation).