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Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

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Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#251

Post by SergeAx »

fsflover wrote: post #244
SergeAx wrote: post #196

I would happily buy a smartphone with replaceable battery, which will be surely available in 2-3 years, but those are just not made anymore. Europe mandated all the phones have USB-C charging capability in two years. Maybe it's time to standardize batteries too?

Consider GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 or Pinephone, which are designed to be repairable and have lifetime software updates. The batteries are replaceable and should be available for a long time, too.

I got myself Pinephone (not Pro) in December 2021. It was mostly unusable but very basic functions (make calls, send/receive SMS) out of the box at the time. Telegram client was very slow, Firefox had screen size problems, notifications were a mess. I think I should've tried to install another OS/env image, but alas I had no time for it. It was a nice try though, and I was impressed how far things got in mobile Linux ecosystem. Maybe something changed from the time, maybe Pro version is somehow better, but for now I think I'll abstain from experimenting for another year. Also, Serbia, where I am in right now, is notoriously bad with the procedure of receiving goods from abroad.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#252

Post by vladvasiliu »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #249
vladvasiliu wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would, since I'd argue most people (hence, "the market") find having sealed batteries "acceptable", or, at least, not reason enough to not buy the product. Most of the people I know replace their phones often enough that it doesn't seem to be a problem, and usually the battery isn't the issue. They mostly break them / get stolen / they just want the new shiny.

Thep problem with Market Extremists, is they they are so high on their own supply, they do not notice when they make statements that outright contradict the real world we live in. They live in a separate fantasy land, just like communists do. Fist falsifiable statement about e-waste policies - if it is so easy to read a company's e-waste policy, could you tell me which companies had policies that said "we will ship t…

I fully agree with your first point.

Concerning the second, I would also tend to agree, but I'd argue that both can be true.

Most people don't solely buy a phone or other device based on the battery.

I would personally prefer a phone with a user-replaceable battery. But I don't prefer it enough as to be the most important thing when buying a phone.

I prefer an iPhone enough (for its other characteristics) compared to a cheap Android phone that I'll accept the non-replaceable battery. Hell, even if the latest Galaxy Sx had a replaceable battery, I'd still buy an iPhone with a non-user replaceable battery. However, if I had the choice between a regular iPhone and one with a user-replaceable battery (even if it were thicker), I'd buy the latter. But I won't go without an iPhone just because of the sealed battery.

Why? Because I prefer using iOS. And during the more than five years that I've had my iPhone 7, when the battery started being "degraded", I rode my bike to the closest Apple repair shop and had it replaced for the price of a Galaxy S5 battery. Again, I would have preferred to be able to do it myself, and be able to carry a spare battery when riding my motorbike in the middle of nowhere. But not enough that I'll buy an Android phone with a user-replaceable battery.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#253

Post by vladvasiliu »

scarface74 wrote: post #248
vladvasiliu wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question, and I'd like an honest answer to that. We've heard the same argument about phones, and my old Galaxy S5 with a user-replaceable battery was a whopping 0.5 mm thicker than an iPhone 13 mini. That's the width of a mechanical pencil lead. They're both water-resistant, too.

.5 inches and heavier for AirPods would make a huge difference ergonomically.

I said 0.5 millimeters. 0.5 inches is freaking huge, that's 1.25 cm. None of my smartphones have been that thick, let alone having that much of a difference.

According to google, 0.5 mm = 0.019685 in

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#254

Post by intothemild »

Aerroon wrote: post #246
intothemild wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this. USB-C can on do the following on the same cable at the same time 1. Charge 2. Data 3. Video Your power cable can 1. Charge How is that "orders of magnitude" worse?

It doesn't matter what other things your charging cable can do if the cable itself is worse at doing its primary job.

Can you define how it's worse at it's primary job?

I have two laptops. One with a old school barrel plug and the other with USBC, and the USBC charges faster as it has more wattage.

So.. id like to hear how you define worse?

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#255

Post by intothemild »

emj wrote: post #235
intothemild wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this. USB-C can on do the following on the same cable at the same time 1. Charge 2. Data 3. Video Your power cable can 1. Charge How is that "orders of magnitude" worse?

The USB-C connector is a lot easier to break than a normal power connector, it's also pretty fidgety to get right when you fix the connection on the laptop side. The fixability can be done better than normal charging ports, I've done a USB-C daughter board swap in about 2 hours of total time (research, ordering, mounting). The normal way though is doing soldering surface mounted USB-C connectors which is not somethin…

I'd agree with this. 100%

I've done replacements of barrel plugs and also USBC ports and the barrel plugs are significantly easier to replace.

Now my USBC charging ports haven't failed me yet, i think that's probably because i have 4 of them on my laptop, and i charge from different ones depending on multiple factors. So I'm spreading the wear around.

That said. When one goes more than likely the others will go shortly there after.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#256

Post by peanut_worm »

I am probably in the minority but I usually run my electronics into the ground and I have never had a battery fail or die permanently. I have always thought that the argument about planned obsolescence as it pertains to hardware was a bit blown out of proportion.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#257

Post by Panzer04 »

throwaway787544 wrote: post #250

Car parts fail reliably enough that the manufacturer tells you when you should replace parts of the car at regular intervals. They don't tell you the car will last forever, it's clearly in a constant state of breaking down. Electronics manufacturers should be just as honest. I think it's pretty funny when people pay more for an electronics gadget than for a used Honda Civic, and the Civic outlasts the gadget by 10 ye…

Electronics don’t fail reliably though. The vast majority of electronic failures are due to excessive mechanical stress that varies from user to user.

The failures we can predict (like batteries) have gotten more attention, admittedly, but by and large it’s my experience that the actual electronic components don’t fail. The only wear part in most modern devices is the battery.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#258

Post by gsich »

intothemild wrote: post #222
causality0 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I hate the trend of only charging over type-c. It's an order of magnitude less robust and far more prone to falling out than, say, a ThinkPad connector. Having the option is nice but I despise having to babysit my $100 Asus charger lest I stomp it flat by accident.

I really don't get this. USB-C can on do the following on the same cable at the same time 1. Charge 2. Data 3. Video Your power cable can 1. Charge How is that "orders of magnitude" worse?

You lose on port if you only charge.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#259

Post by ornornor »

scarface74 wrote: post #240
ornornor wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true at all. It does require a bit more semi manual tweaking but you’re being overly dramatic.

So you can “manually tweak” an x86 laptop to have 20+ hours of battery life and not to get hot and loud under load?

You can tweak a laptop’s energy settings so that it has comparable battery life whether it’s running windows or Linux. But no, a laptop that has 8h of runtime in windows won’t magically get 20h in Linux.

Re: Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret

#260

Post by criddell »

peanut_worm wrote: post #256

I am probably in the minority but I usually run my electronics into the ground and I have never had a battery fail or die permanently. I have always thought that the argument about planned obsolescence as it pertains to hardware was a bit blown out of proportion.

While not necessarily planned, electronics often fail too soon. Sometimes they just wear out.

Just this weekend my five year old NAS died because of a CPU flaw. AV receivers seem to last about 6 years before something fails (usually the HDMI board seems to fail). Wireless access points get worse after 4 or 5 years of use (I’ve been told the amplifiers wear out). It’s frustrating.

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