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The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

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Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not in court. If someone clearly has an agenda then calling them a lobbyist is just fine

words have meanings and should be used accordingly

yes and in this context lobbyist means someone with a clear agenda, not a legal designation. You're the one making up meanings to suit yourself

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"She was also criticized for being an ally of the meat and dairy industry. ". She's not a scientist (did an "American Studies" degree in college,) just a dirtbag who makes her money shilling for a murderous industry

What on earth is an "American Studies" degree?

Great question

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#114

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm able to differentiate any vegan product from a non-vegan one in under 5 seconds of checking. There is ALWAYS an ingredient list, which is always going to tell you very clearly what you're buying. It is also a good idea to do that to other products you're buying. The "food industry" doesn't really exist, but the meat industry is heavily lobbying for strict regulations, as well as producing more and more ads ("eat…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finishing beef is what happens in the feedlot at the end to fatten them up. "grass fed" beef has in the past occasionally meant beef that fed on pasture all its life until it got to the feedlot where they stuffed it full of grain until it was well marbled. Grass finished means they only ate grass in the feedlot too. 100% grass fed has similar implications. You can pretty much tell. If the fat from the meat has a char…

I can't say I've found grain fed to be anything other than a bit bland and greasy. That being said, it's usually been Aberdeen Angus, which is okayish at best.

What kind of grai would they be getting fed? That probably matters too.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#116

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm able to differentiate any vegan product from a non-vegan one in under 5 seconds of checking. There is ALWAYS an ingredient list, which is always going to tell you very clearly what you're buying. It is also a good idea to do that to other products you're buying. The "food industry" doesn't really exist, but the meat industry is heavily lobbying for strict regulations, as well as producing more and more ads ("eat…

> If everyone could eat locally grown ethically sourced meat, there would be no need for veganism

Vegan = avoiding cruelty, suffering and exploitation as much as possible in a pragmatic way.

Veganism isn't a diet. It's a moral choice that people make, as they don't want to support an industry that's killing our biosphere and inflicting unnecessary cruelty - since in most parts of the world people don't need meat anymore to survive.

So your sentence doesn't really make sense. You'd probably want to replace veganism with 'pure plant-based diet'

Even if you raised a cow yourself - petted it everyday, cared for it, even played with it etc - how is it ethical to kill it to enjoy its flesh - if your survival doesn't depend on it?

Animals just like us don't want to die and they do everything to avoid pain.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#117
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems weird that you would talk about supposed shortfalls of plant nutrition and then in the next sentence talk about cheeseburgers (who considers these healthy?) and multivitamins (which are not considered a substitute for proper nutrition[1][2]) 1. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-preventi... 2. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/do-multivitamins-work

I consider a cheeseburger healthy. The custom of serving them with french fried potatoes and a milkshake or cola gives them a bit of guilt by association, but meat, some cheese, some vegetables, and a serving of bread? Don't see an issue at all.

Turns out you can make any meal unhealthy if you include half a pound of sugar.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#118
post #80
post #20

Unfortunately meat is clearly bad for you in at least one but probably many ways. The most compelling evidence to me is that carnivorous animals have higher rates of death from cancer, see fig 2 of this fascinating study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04224-5

This is only a study of raw meat consumption, which is comparatively rare among humans. If it turns out — and this study acknowledges this limitation — that the predominant causal agent here is cancer-casing viruses, that would have pretty irrelevant impact for humans. There are so many confounds here that it’s hard to draw conclusions for humans except maybe what’s worth future study. FWIW, I have no horse in this r…

The 2012 plenary session in the biggest cancer conference in the world was about cancer causing viruses in red meat that wasn’t cooked to a certain temperature. It hasn’t really panned out since. In any case, the bottom line remains that red meat can cause cancer. Preparing it a certain way might reduce the risk but not to zero. Humans still eat a lot of non-virally sterile meat. Yes we can spend the next 100 years studying it, but what should one have for dinner tonight? The answer it seems is probably not red meat.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#119
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are animals in human care. But the fact is there is a difference between carnivores and herbivores across various species and animal lifestyles, which is strong proof that meat is carcinogenic. What factors mitigate this in the wild are largely irrelevant. You can smoke and exercise and be a bit better off, but that doesn't change the carcinogenic potential of cigarettes.

> What factors mitigate this in the wild are largely irrelevant Why? If we find a link indicating exercise reduces or eliminates the cancer risk associated with eating meat, then it would just show another option for behavioral change to produce positive outcome. More options is not a bad thing.

It’s a bit like studying how to reduce your chance of lung cancer from smoking if you want to keep smoking. No mitigating factor will eliminate the risks from red meat, except not eating it. Also lifestyle or nutritional mitigation factors are difficult to study, and it’s never clear if they apply to a given person with a particular genotype and environment.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#120

I have often wondered: A - Are meats unhealthy, or, is it the food fed (grains on a foodlot) to the animal that negatively influences the health profile? [1] B - If meats are so unhealthy, why are the bushmen superfit and incredibly healthy into old age despite having a significant amount of meat ~25% in their diet? [2] & [3] I recognize that some animals raised on healthy grass-fed diets may have health profiles mor…

Regarding your point B, the current US government guidelines that the current article rails against as not being scientific enough actually say: > The core recommendations of the Guidelines state that a healthy diet for all Americans should include vegetables, fruits, grains (half of which should be whole grains), low or non-fat dairy, and a variety of protein foods, including seafood, lean meats and poultry, eggs, l…

Low fat/non fat dairy is not healthy, nor is most low fat/non fat replacements because sugar is added to increase flavor.
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