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NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

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441–450 of 494 posts

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely not in that place. We clearly disagree on a few points. The issues raised in the blog post aren’t just about NIST mishandling the FOIA. By reducing it to the lawsuit, this is already a bad faith engagement. The blog post is primarily about the history of NSA sabotage as well as contemporary efforts, including (NIST’s) failures to stop this sabotage. Finally it finishes the recent history by raising th…

I just want to jump back here for a second, because when I responded to this comment last night, I hadn't really read it (for I think obvious reasons, but also I was watching Sandman). So I wrote some replies last night that I'm not super proud of --- not because I said anything wrong, but because I didn't acknowledge the majesty of the argument I had been confronted with. This right here is a comment that makes the…

> … I didn't acknowledge the majesty of the argument I had been confronted with.

Gee, thanks, I think. Sorry to say we don’t agree on your summary of my comment.

> Filippo Valsorda wrote a tweet that included a meme from "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia"

From this, we already have serious disagreements. It’s part of a series of tweets amplified by others. It isn’t a single tweet in isolation even when we only look at the direct author. We do agree on the source of the clip, though I think you weren’t familiar with the background of the subject parodied in the clip as I raised it. Perhaps you do not believe it or perhaps you think that the parody somehow erases what was parodied originally. Reasonable people can read it many ways.

> That meme is a parody of "A Beautiful Mind"

There are many memes with text included, though this was a video, and it seems clearly a parody of Nash from that film. Here is one example meme that I did not create: https://me.me/i/mathematician-john-nash-during-a-schizophren...

> John Nash was mentally ill

Yep. The implication of using such a meme to punch down is mirrored in the words of the related tweets calling him a conspiracy theorist. This wasn’t as you tried to say, a single tweet, it’s presented in a context that is harsh, and condemning.

> John Nash was virulently anti-semitic

Maybe, it’s unclear if it was a byproduct of his mental illness or a sincerely held belief. It’s a third rail, regardless. I won’t hold a mentally ill person accountable for stuff they say during an episode, and I also won’t use it as a joke.

> Ergo, Filippo Valsorda is both bigoted against the mentally ill, and also an anti-semite.

This isn’t my claim. My claim is that it’s completely inappropriate on many levels to post not only that meme but to use it in tandem with direct personal attacks on Bernstein. This seems especially relevant in a thread supposedly about damaging behavior of other people in the community.

I would prefer you don’t cover for mental health stigmatization or antisemitic dog whistling even a tiny bit, especially if it was not intended. Painting me as crazy for my analysis is shitty. You asked me to bring some light and then attack me for sharing my actual thoughts. You didn’t acknowledge my insight about Jewish names, either. Was that news to you? Dismissively omitting anything about that insight is weird.

Please leave no room for ambiguity here, it is a very dangerous time in the world, and in America, especially after the Tree of Life murders. There are many many other examples of terrible stuff like that - and anything that even remotely smells like that must be immediately challenged in my view. No doubt this personal context makes myself and others extra sensitive. That is exactly why I explained my understanding of the meaning.

I am happy to provide an analysis of Homer Simpson memes in context if it can help us break the ice and not end this thread on hard or hateful terms.

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to jump back here for a second, because when I responded to this comment last night, I hadn't really read it (for I think obvious reasons, but also I was watching Sandman). So I wrote some replies last night that I'm not super proud of --- not because I said anything wrong, but because I didn't acknowledge the majesty of the argument I had been confronted with. This right here is a comment that makes the…

> … I didn't acknowledge the majesty of the argument I had been confronted with. Gee, thanks, I think. Sorry to say we don’t agree on your summary of my comment. > Filippo Valsorda wrote a tweet that included a meme from "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" From this, we already have serious disagreements. It’s part of a series of tweets amplified by others. It isn’t a single tweet in isolation even when we only look…

"Crazy" is not the word I would use about what you've written here. It is unlikely you and I are going to have any productive dialog after this, which is totally fine; I'm happy to disengage here.

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no record that he attempted to use internal channels From the beginning of the Snowden quote: > I could not legally go to the official channels that direct NSA employees have available to them In addition, I find it difficult to take any congressional report on this matter, including the one you cited, seriously given that their primary source is a group of people who have repeatedly lied to Congress witho…

Why do you take Snowden's word as gospel but dismiss a bipartisan Congressional Committee's findings? I think that you are biased and nothing will change your mind. Let's agree to disagree.

You could also take the word of a person from deep inside the Obama administration: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/ben-rhodes-book-proves-obam...

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ask this another way. I know how we determined noise was a good standard and that was talking to a lot of people who had built sophisticated crypto systems and then doing the research ourselves, but that’s only because we had the people on staff who had the capacity to evaluate such systems. If we didn’t have those people, how would you suggest figuring out which system to implement?

Peer review is a good start. Noise, and systems derived from it like WireGuard, are peer reviewed (check scholar.google.com for starters), and NIST had nothing at all to do with it.

It is incredibly hard to get a good grasp of the consensus in a literature as a non-expert just by searching Google Scholar. People spend years in graduate school to learn to do that.

Are there reputable journals or conference proceedings that you specifically recommend reading for high-quality literature reviews?

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you take Snowden's word as gospel but dismiss a bipartisan Congressional Committee's findings? I think that you are biased and nothing will change your mind. Let's agree to disagree.

You could also take the word of a person from deep inside the Obama administration: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/ben-rhodes-book-proves-obam...

[deleted]

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on his reputation?

Based only on random conversations and no serious interrogation of what happened, so take it for the very little this pure statement of opinion is worth, I'd say he has, chiefly, and in my own words , a reputation for being a prickly drama queen. He has never been that to me; I've had just a few personal interactions with him, and they've been uniformly positive. My feeling is that he was generous with his time and e…

Thanks for this reply. Can you point to a specific gross thing?

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#447
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most programmers don't need to prove crypto algorithms. There are many situations where you can just use TLS 1.3 and let it choose the ciphers. If you really need to build a custom protocol or file format, you can still use libsodium's secretbox, crypto_box, and crypto_kx functions which use the right algorithms.

This is completely unrelated to the question being asked by the parent. They aren't asking about the average programmer. They are asking how many people in the world can truly 'prove' (to some reasonable degree) that the cryptography in use and the algorithms that are implementing that cryptography are 'secure' (to some reasonable degree). Put another way, they are asking how many people in the world could verify tha…

My point was that you don't need "thousands and thousands of people with the expertise to actually proove that the algorithms used today are really safe".

If the demand existed, there would be a lot more of those people.

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#448
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term "doublethink" was invented specifically for government functionaries like the IC guy you describe. Being consistently and perfectly dogmatic requires holding two contradictory beliefs in your head at once. It's a skill.

It’s not doublethink to say the programs should have been exposed and that Snowden was a traitor for exposing them in a manner that otherwise hurt our country. He could have done things properly, instead he dumped thousands of files unrelated to illegal surveillance to the media.

It absolutely is. Please read his book, it addresses this claim directly.

You can't fix lawlessness by reporting the violation of law to the lawbreaker.

This is also why police in the USA are out of control. You cannot fix a criminal conspiracy from within the criminal conspiracy.

PS: nations don't exist, they are fictional abstractions. You cannot "hurt a country".

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#449
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peer review is a good start. Noise, and systems derived from it like WireGuard, are peer reviewed (check scholar.google.com for starters), and NIST had nothing at all to do with it.

It is incredibly hard to get a good grasp of the consensus in a literature as a non-expert just by searching Google Scholar. People spend years in graduate school to learn to do that. Are there reputable journals or conference proceedings that you specifically recommend reading for high-quality literature reviews?

I got a lot of mileage out of attending IACR in person. Lots of amazing content there every time. A lot of it is addressable even if you aren't going to do the math.

Re: NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit against the US government

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange too.

Not yet. Maybe he will survive to come out the other end, like Chelsea Manning.

Assange has been confined in Belmarsh, a category A prison, in London since April 2019.
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