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Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

nature.com

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Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#201

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #173
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for replying, but I would like to understand what "mental baggage" is and why it makes a difference. Why doesn't "mental baggage" affect aspirin? Also, just to be clear, I don't think you're saying that you have to be in a special frame of mind for psychoactive drugs to make a difference. For example, I've been told that homeopathy doesn't work for me because I "don't believe in it", but I'm pretty sure tha…

Your prior mental state, past trauma, physical state and comfort, will have a significant impact on how your experience develops. Any neuroticism can bubble to the surface and you might find yourself obsessing over a bad habit you have instead of enjoying the mystery and pattern of the universe.

Sorry, that sounds too mystical to me and I don't believe in the supernatural. I note you're not the OP though?

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#202

Post by _drimzy »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #163
zosima wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, why would you claim that?

Claim what? If you go through the results and exclude the individuals who didn’t show the outcome you wanted to see, that’s called cherry-picking. It’s a well-known phrase. There is a concept of subgroup analysis in studies like these, but you have to be careful about how it’s done and what conclusions are drawn. If you simply select positive results and exclude negative results then even the placebo group would show…

> If you simply select positive results and exclude negative results then even the placebo group would show great success.

Where did zosima ask to do that? They mentioned that the variable of comparison should be changes from baseline metrics in treatment group vs changes from baseline metrics in control group. That would be a fair study, and isn't cherry picking.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#203

Post by Kab1r »

tayo42 wrote: post #181
j_m_b wrote: post #122

I'm sort of surprised they didn't extract/synthesize psilocybin directly and administer that. Decades ago, I grew a few batches of P. Cubensis. Even amongst mushrooms from the same rice cake, the dosage wildly varies. You could have a "trip" from a tiny mushroom or eat a handful of duds.

Is psyocybin the only active chemical in mushrooms or is it like Marijuana where other chemicals in it can have some effect too

Psilocin is also present.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#204

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

dkarl wrote: post #108
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that if you want to maintain your cognitive function at peak efficiency your best bet is to not do anything that has a chance to affect it negatively, like doing drugs. An "experienced person" in this case will not help you because it means someone who's been doing drugs for a while and there is at least a chance that their cognitive function is impaired and that you shouldn't trust their judgement.

I haven't tried psychedelics yet for the same reason. The people I know who offer them to me don't show any level of care or responsibility when it comes to dosing themselves. For example, they'll buy drugs from people they've never met before, random people they run into in bars and clubs. I haven't yet personally met anybody who takes drugs who is as careful as I would like to be.

As an aside, I like to quote this passage from Terry Pratchett's The Carpet People:

Other shamen ate the yellow-spotted mushrooms that were found deep in the hair thickets and said things like: ‘Hiiiiyahyahheya! Heyaheyayahyah! Hngh! Hngh!’ which certainly sounded magical.

Pismire said things like, ‘Correct observation followed by meticulous deduction and the precise visualization of goals is vital to the success of any enterprise. Have you noticed the way the wild tromps always move around two days ahead of the sorath herds? Incidentally, don’t eat the yellow-spotted mushrooms.’

Which didn’t sound magical at all, but worked a lot better and conjured up good hunting. Privately some Munrungs thought good hunting was more due to their own skill. Pismire encouraged this view. ‘Positive thinking,’ he would say, ‘is also very important.’

https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/childrens-article/the-car...

Don't eat the yellow-spotted mushroom, folks. I guess it's not trendy to say it, but the magical shamen have had one too many.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#205

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

the_doctah wrote: post #193
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friends are doing their best to connect with others and share their newfound perspective using whatever crude tools are available to them. Be kind. Psychedelics give you a new map into reality. If nobody teaches you how to read the map, it's easy to get lost or misread it. Integrating a bunch of different maps can be very challenging. Charitably, what they probably mean is that if we model god as the sum total o…

Playing into and encouraging other people's delusions isn't helping them.

Denying people's experiences and calling them delusions isn't helping them.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#206

Post by TaylorAlexander »

jerojero wrote: post #174
Enginerrrd wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This, to me. means that a microdose is a gamble not worth taking. This has always been the problem with psychedelics as a therapeutic approach. It's hard to reconcile being a responsible clinician and recommending a therapy with such mixed and often-negative results. They are in charge of a person's mental well-being in a way that people evangelizing psychedelic therapy don't seem to properly appreciate. If a patien…

As far as I know experiments of CBT + psychedelics have shown very promising results for treating PTSD and certain kinds of depression, specially in people that are about to die and need to come to terms with that. These are not microdosing experiments though. The usual way it is handled is that you get a few weeks of CBT then you get half a dose and the following week you get a full dose followed by more weeks of CB…

Just a small note but my understanding is that “CBT” aka cognitive behavioral therapy is a specific form of therapy, while most research around psychedelic assisted therapy centers around traditional talk therapy rather than a more specific technique.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#207

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

peteradio wrote: post #149
carschno wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly a counterargument. GP said you were high all the time, that's different from being addicted. There is some overlap, depending on the substance, but also significant difference. Think of nicotine, caffeine (addictive, but no high) vs psilocybin (high but arguably not addictive).

Microdosing isn't supposed to make you high. OP said they were taking /20 of a high dosing. So the assertion of "being high all the time" is sort of insulting.

I don't see how being high is an insult. OP didn't seem insulted to me.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#208

Post by h2odragon »

entropie wrote: post #152
j_m_b wrote: post #122

I'm sort of surprised they didn't extract/synthesize psilocybin directly and administer that. Decades ago, I grew a few batches of P. Cubensis. Even amongst mushrooms from the same rice cake, the dosage wildly varies. You could have a "trip" from a tiny mushroom or eat a handful of duds.

> Even amongst mushrooms from the same rice cake, the dosage wildly varies This is the main reason with psychoactive mushrooms overall. You can't dose exact via bio material so overdosing happens regular and could be actually harmful.

Extracting from shrooms with ethanol is quite consistent, the psilocybin isn't very soluble so after a few days soaking you can be pretty confident that the ethanol has taken up all it can. for microdosing the ethanol probably isn't enough to worry about trying to take it back out of solution, drink .25 oz or so.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#209

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

BossingAround wrote: post #109
EmilyHughes wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that influences your psyche in an obvious way.

Isn't Aspirin psychoactive in the same way? I.e. it takes away pain, which influences your psyche in an obvious way.

It's nit psychoactive in the sense that is has any direct perceptible effect on the brain. It reduces inflammation, which can be perceived as less pain indirectly altering your mental state.

Whereas psychoactive drugs generally affect the actual underlying processes in the brain through various interactions with receptor, enzymes, or neurotransmitters.

I hope that distinction makes sense.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#210

Post by TaylorAlexander »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #201
RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your prior mental state, past trauma, physical state and comfort, will have a significant impact on how your experience develops. Any neuroticism can bubble to the surface and you might find yourself obsessing over a bad habit you have instead of enjoying the mystery and pattern of the universe.

Sorry, that sounds too mystical to me and I don't believe in the supernatural. I note you're not the OP though?

The phrase is “set and setting” meaning that it is strongly advised to only take psychedelics when you have a good mindset and a good setting. The thing about psychedelics is that you will have powerful mental imagery during the trip, that’s just how they work. So what is on your mind that day will affect what you think about, and with the power of psychedelics I’m told it could get scary or bad if you’re in a particularly bad mood.

For example I’ve twice taken mushrooms while I was lonely. About 1 gram. In both cases I ended up just feeling an amplified sense of loneliness that was very difficult to handle. Another time, and this wasn’t particularly bad, but I ended up thinking about my parents dying (they’re still alive) and it was a powerful feeling. That was good though, because after that I began to put more effort in to seeing them and spending time with them.

But my point is that the experience is a powerful mental experience that is affected by what is on your mind. So they strongly recommend only doing a trip if you have a good mindset and a good setting to do so. Otherwise wait.

By the way the parent comment is correct. Psychedelics bring up a powerful feeling of connectedness with the universe. You feel like you’re seeing patterns of the matter around you and you feel one with it all. I’m not a mystical person but that’s how I’ve felt on a strong trip.

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