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ESA – Climate from Space

cfs.climate.esa.int

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Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#11

Post by spywaregorilla »

earthscienceman wrote: post #10
spywaregorilla wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because there's very little reason we cannot do both simultaneously. Space is no more the opportunity cost of climate science than any other thing we do on earth.

You would think that. But I'm one of a few scientists that work on the only fully integrated climate observation station for the Greenland ice sheet. I'm headed to Greenland as I type this. The Greenland ice sheet is the fastest melting piece of ice in the world, and is one of the canaries-in-the-coal mine that we need to observe to understand catastrophic climate change impacts. I was just discussing with my colleag…

But it's incorrect to state that climate science is competing with JWST more than it is competing with any other venture, scientific or otherwise, for funding.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#12

Post by earthscienceman »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #11
earthscienceman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that. But I'm one of a few scientists that work on the only fully integrated climate observation station for the Greenland ice sheet. I'm headed to Greenland as I type this. The Greenland ice sheet is the fastest melting piece of ice in the world, and is one of the canaries-in-the-coal mine that we need to observe to understand catastrophic climate change impacts. I was just discussing with my colleag…

But it's incorrect to state that climate science is competing with JWST more than it is competing with any other venture, scientific or otherwise, for funding.

Of course that's incorrect, and that's not what I'm stating. The comment I replied to implied that we can (and are) doing both simultaneously. I'm trying to show the degree to which that is or is not true. I even said clearly that arguing about funding isn't worthwhile, for exactly the point you make. It's philosophically useless and categorically weak. The idea is simple: we don't care about global climate all that much, either studying it or fixing it. The funding and social effort shows that clearly. We prefer sexy shiny science the same way we prefer cars and iphones shipped from China.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#13

Post by BurningFrog »

gpa wrote: post #6

Perfect data visualization of the current environmental and climate challenges that is open to anyone. The current environmental issues we face are portrayed with "Data layers" and discussed with "Stories" beneath. Stories like this should reach mass media to raise public awareness. Before we can focus on the (final) outer space (frontier), we must first fix our inner (terrestrial) space (ship) with a priority. Or no…

> Before we can focus on the (final) outer space (frontier), we must first fix our inner (terrestrial) space (ship) with a priority.

The idea that humanity can only do one thing at a time is both widespread, and absolutely bonkers!

We're 7 billion different people!

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#14

Post by ehnto »

Silverback_VII wrote: post #8
gpa wrote: post #6

Perfect data visualization of the current environmental and climate challenges that is open to anyone. The current environmental issues we face are portrayed with "Data layers" and discussed with "Stories" beneath. Stories like this should reach mass media to raise public awareness. Before we can focus on the (final) outer space (frontier), we must first fix our inner (terrestrial) space (ship) with a priority. Or no…

I would say no. Without outer space there is simply not enough space (and resources) anymore. Too much tension to solve the major issues...

Counterpoint, if we can't make earth work, how are we expecting to make another planet work? It will be inconceivably harder to turn Mars into something hospitable than it would be to remedy our current planet. We have the science and knowledge we need to make drastic changes here, we are just disorganized and unwilling.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#15

Post by atoav »

BurningFrog wrote: post #13
gpa wrote: post #6

Perfect data visualization of the current environmental and climate challenges that is open to anyone. The current environmental issues we face are portrayed with "Data layers" and discussed with "Stories" beneath. Stories like this should reach mass media to raise public awareness. Before we can focus on the (final) outer space (frontier), we must first fix our inner (terrestrial) space (ship) with a priority. Or no…

> Before we can focus on the (final) outer space (frontier), we must first fix our inner (terrestrial) space (ship) with a priority. The idea that humanity can only do one thing at a time is both widespread, and absolutely bonkers! We're 7 billion different people!

> We're 7 billion different people!

Consider that it might in fact be harder to get 7 billion different people to do one thing than having them do 7 billion different things.

If we can't manage to exist in balance with this perfectly fine planet we evolved on, what makes you think we are even prepared in the slightest to do so with a new planet which would very likely be the equivalent of playing earth in hardcore mode?

I also think we should fix earth and explore the rest of the universe at the same time. But as of now we are doing a really, really shit job of doing the former, so maybe we should focus there first. Why, you might ask? Cause the negative impact of fucking that one up has a headcount of 7 billion + future generations.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#16

Post by hunter-gatherer »

earthscienceman wrote: post #12
spywaregorilla wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's incorrect to state that climate science is competing with JWST more than it is competing with any other venture, scientific or otherwise, for funding.

Of course that's incorrect, and that's not what I'm stating. The comment I replied to implied that we can (and are) doing both simultaneously. I'm trying to show the degree to which that is or is not true. I even said clearly that arguing about funding isn't worthwhile, for exactly the point you make. It's philosophically useless and categorically weak. The idea is simple: we don't care about global climate all that…

> The idea is simple: we don't care about global climate all that much, either studying it or fixing it.

This is why I'm so pessimistic about the future. I don't really think we are all willing to sacrifice our shiny objects and accept a less carbon intensive lifestyle when the cost doesn't seem imminent. I often compare it to being overweight due to u healthy habbits. People aren't born obese, but slowly choose that lifestyle for immediate pleasures all the while the danger only creeps up.

Not articulated very well because I'm on mobile... best of luck to everyone.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#17

Post by Grim-444 »

ehnto wrote: post #14
Silverback_VII wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say no. Without outer space there is simply not enough space (and resources) anymore. Too much tension to solve the major issues...

Counterpoint, if we can't make earth work, how are we expecting to make another planet work? It will be inconceivably harder to turn Mars into something hospitable than it would be to remedy our current planet. We have the science and knowledge we need to make drastic changes here, we are just disorganized and unwilling.

You're creating a false dichotomy that either we're staying on earth or trying to colonize mars, ignoring other options such as having a more capable presence in orbit for doing things like asteroid mining, which would supply the resources that the poster you're responding to mentioned.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#19

Post by newman555 »

earthscienceman wrote: post #10
spywaregorilla wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because there's very little reason we cannot do both simultaneously. Space is no more the opportunity cost of climate science than any other thing we do on earth.

You would think that. But I'm one of a few scientists that work on the only fully integrated climate observation station for the Greenland ice sheet. I'm headed to Greenland as I type this. The Greenland ice sheet is the fastest melting piece of ice in the world, and is one of the canaries-in-the-coal mine that we need to observe to understand catastrophic climate change impacts. I was just discussing with my colleag…

how frustrating it is for you to do what you do and know what you know? I only know the “common” knowledge about climate change and it makes me angry every time I think about what we know and where we’re still heading.

Re: ESA – Climate from Space

#20

Post by earthscienceman »

newman555 wrote: post #19
earthscienceman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that. But I'm one of a few scientists that work on the only fully integrated climate observation station for the Greenland ice sheet. I'm headed to Greenland as I type this. The Greenland ice sheet is the fastest melting piece of ice in the world, and is one of the canaries-in-the-coal mine that we need to observe to understand catastrophic climate change impacts. I was just discussing with my colleag…

how frustrating it is for you to do what you do and know what you know? I only know the “common” knowledge about climate change and it makes me angry every time I think about what we know and where we’re still heading.

I'm fairly early in my career (read: youngish). And, truthfully, I'm very much having an existential crisis. I often wonder what the worth in studying the climate is. After all, we already have an extremely detailed understanding of the basics. Does refining our estimate of melt and other such issues, reducing the error bars, really contribute anything more to society? I'm not sure. It feels fruitless. But I recently had a friend explain that I should consider myself more a documentarian than a researcher which shifted my perspective quite a lot. Some people here will like the quote:

"Somebody has to document what happened, it's better than selling ads on the internet. Imagine a world where we burn ourselves to death and we didn't even keep track of the specifics, it seems even more tragic."

Anyway. I think the answer is clearly... frustrating.

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