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What is the cost of a cashless society?

thewalrus.ca

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Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#281

Post by inkblotuniverse »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #273
starkd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's convenient for now. You never know what turn society is going to take somewhere down the line. The government is in a much better position to dictate rules for all of your commerce. Whether that happens in a few years or decades from now is anybody's guess, but the temptation to excercise that power is all the more likely.

I'll let you know when New Zealand becomes a dictatorship, I guess.

It was pretty authoritarian over the course of the last two years!

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#282

Post by ksec »

TheFattestNinja wrote: post #175

This twitter thread might be a bit extreme, but it raises interesting points ( https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang... ). Basically, if you are not allowed to spend money (transact) then you are really not able to exercise your other rights. And if everything was cashless there is an actual risk of Gov or BigBank having the power to stop you transacting completely. It has happened in 1st world…

And I thought it may be worth pointing out, since 2014/2015, and all the way to 2018/2019. 95%+ HN comments were against cash. In the year where Apple Pay launched, the overwhelming of Tech and Silicon Valley support a cashless society. Apple made the claim Cash is old fashioned, Quote "cash will be dead for the next generation of kids".

I think most reading on HN should take a moment and reflect on that.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#283

Post by vlod »

_8j50 wrote: post #230
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #201

The article is very superficial about cost. It's not just about money, it's about freedom and democracy. A cashless society, like everything with computer, information control or centralize power, is fine when you are riding the happy path. As soon as you are not inline with society, or that slthe system itself become no more adapted to it's context, it's a nightmare.

In short:liberty. You can have cashless shit but don't take cash as an option for the rest of us. Another way of sayinf cashless is "tracked and logged payment transactions with regulated participation in commerce". Straitght up, revelations level scary stuff.

On a recent trip to London, I was surprised on the number of places that DO NOT take cash (some bars, major chain coffee shops). Family members explained that this was due to COVID. However if the server doesn't wear a mask, then this is a moot point.

I just sighed and left.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#284

Post by Ferret7446 »

TheFattestNinja wrote: post #175

This twitter thread might be a bit extreme, but it raises interesting points ( https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang... ). Basically, if you are not allowed to spend money (transact) then you are really not able to exercise your other rights. And if everything was cashless there is an actual risk of Gov or BigBank having the power to stop you transacting completely. It has happened in 1st world…

This isn't a problem with cashless, since cryptocurrency solves this exact problem. It's unfortunate that many critics are uninformed and don't understand this.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#285

Post by EdwardDiego »

inkblotuniverse wrote: post #281
EdwardDiego wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll let you know when New Zealand becomes a dictatorship, I guess.

It was pretty authoritarian over the course of the last two years!

No it wasn't, not sure why people keep choosing to believe that when Kiwis keep correcting them.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#286

Post by toomuchtodo »

hakfoo wrote: post #90
miracle2k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa and Mastercard were pressured into cutting of Pornhub ads literally yesterday. There needs to be a statuary right to be serviced by the banking system. This is in addition to escape valves such as cash and crypto.

I always thought we should give every SSN/EIN an account at a state-ran bank, structurally obliged to serve all legal uses. This would ensure everyone had access to direct-deposit payment (eliminating most of the case behind the "it's almost a real bank account" prepaid-card products with exploitative fees) and create a single huge audience to target for "over the top" services to develop. Perhaps it could be put tog…

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/357...

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/fed-accounts-and-the-right-t...

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#287

Post by starkd »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #273
starkd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's convenient for now. You never know what turn society is going to take somewhere down the line. The government is in a much better position to dictate rules for all of your commerce. Whether that happens in a few years or decades from now is anybody's guess, but the temptation to excercise that power is all the more likely.

I'll let you know when New Zealand becomes a dictatorship, I guess.

There is such a thing as "soft tyranny". It can be just as insidious and demoralizing to individual rights as a hard tyranny.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#288

Post by _8j50 »

vlod wrote: post #283
_8j50 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short:liberty. You can have cashless shit but don't take cash as an option for the rest of us. Another way of sayinf cashless is "tracked and logged payment transactions with regulated participation in commerce". Straitght up, revelations level scary stuff.

On a recent trip to London, I was surprised on the number of places that DO NOT take cash (some bars, major chain coffee shops). Family members explained that this was due to COVID. However if the server doesn't wear a mask, then this is a moot point. I just sighed and left.

Good on you. I need to start leaving yelp/google reviews for this stuff.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#289

Post by imwillofficial »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #124
imwillofficial wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they weren’t turning a profit, they wouldn’t be pushing this.

It's not mutually exclusive. For example, if the operating costs of a cashless system are 1%, the operators charge 3% and cash costs business 5%, the operators turn a profit while it's advantageous for businesses as well. If businesses lower prices with the 2% they saved, it's advantageous for consumers too.

I disagree with those figures. In my experience handling cash is not nearly as expensive as transaction fees.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#290

Post by mvid »

qabqabaca wrote: post #167
phist_mcgee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a solution looking for a problem. Payment via bank transfer is also a contract, the dispute resolution is no different. I don't see how a promise note on a piece of paper somehow protects you better than an electronic transfer that is visible to you, the other party, the bank, and to authorities.

Agree. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. It comes across the same as when someone from the US tries to argue that putting the month before the day actually makes sense in dates because then the max values go from lowest to highest (12/31/9999+).

US and non-US date styles are equally wrong. It’s just personal preference or what you are used to. The only “correct” option would be Year Month Day, and the only argument that needs to be made for is look at how your clock arranges time, or how you write it down.
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