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The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

unsettledscience.substack.com

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Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#11

Post by Fargren »

HidyBush wrote: post #4
RappingBoomer wrote: post #2

I think the reason why academia is trying so hard to demonize meat is because they have pushed grains so hard for so many decades and now the truth about grains and blood sugar is coming out...which makes them look bad

an excessive consuption of refined grains is bad, eating the right amount of whole grains is solely beneficial

That's a vacuous argument. It's true for literally anything.

an excessive consumption of water is bad, drinking the right amount of clean water is solely beneficial

an excessive consumption of eggs is bad, eating the right amount of eggs is solely beneficial

an excessive consumption of toxic sludge is bad, eating the right amount (0) of sludge is solely beneficial

The question, of course, is what is the right amount and is it more or less than what most people eat.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#12

Post by oarabbus_ »

tomp wrote: post #9
WA wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% reach 60. No numbers above that. They are healthy while alive, but don’t live longer than people from developed nations. Look, the discussions around bad health effects of meat consumption all resolve around heart disease and cancer. The numbers are pretty irrelevant for people below 60 or so. We are essentially optimizing lifespan and are wondering what causes diseases in old age, like 70+. It makes zero sense t…

> They are healthy while alive If that's true, it would imply that they don't die of ill health (disease) but of accidents (eaten by lion) or incredibly curable stuff (e.g. bacterial infection). So their lifestyle is definitely something to mimick / learn from, as we can easily prevent the healthy person dying causes of death in the first world.

> as we can easily prevent the healthy person dying causes of death in the first world.

Citation needed. Accidental deaths from motor vehicle injuries plus other factors are disturbingly common in the first world.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#13

Post by azalemeth »

erokar wrote: post #8

It's far from one study that has found a link between red meat and heart disease. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=meat+heart+disease

Indeed. The original article comes across as really quite biased too. Longitudinal cohort studies can never nail causality but they are quite good at providing measures of apparent risk.

In cardiology, an odds ratio of about 1.2, called tiny by the article, can actually be considered quite large in some circumstances. Very roughly speaking, it's about equivalent to your risk per ten years of age of developing heart failure, or per 20 mmHg of systolic blood pressure [1].

[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10557-022-07355-7

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#14

Post by Gordonjcp »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #3

I have often wondered: A - Are meats unhealthy, or, is it the food fed (grains on a foodlot) to the animal that negatively influences the health profile? [1] B - If meats are so unhealthy, why are the bushmen superfit and incredibly healthy into old age despite having a significant amount of meat ~25% in their diet? [2] & [3] I recognize that some animals raised on healthy grass-fed diets may have health profiles mor…

> conventional grain fed red meat

"Grain fed" is not conventional.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#15

Post by vixen99 »

HidyBush wrote: post #4
RappingBoomer wrote: post #2

I think the reason why academia is trying so hard to demonize meat is because they have pushed grains so hard for so many decades and now the truth about grains and blood sugar is coming out...which makes them look bad

an excessive consuption of refined grains is bad, eating the right amount of whole grains is solely beneficial

You may be right, you may be wrong but with respect, if you can't supply references to peer-reviewed studies to support your contentious assertion then why should anyone believe you?

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#16

Post by stavros »

HidyBush wrote: post #4
RappingBoomer wrote: post #2

I think the reason why academia is trying so hard to demonize meat is because they have pushed grains so hard for so many decades and now the truth about grains and blood sugar is coming out...which makes them look bad

an excessive consuption of refined grains is bad, eating the right amount of whole grains is solely beneficial

Are you saying that eating the right amount of something is good and eating the wrong amount is bad?

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#17

Post by sph »

martingoodson wrote: post #10
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #3

I have often wondered: A - Are meats unhealthy, or, is it the food fed (grains on a foodlot) to the animal that negatively influences the health profile? [1] B - If meats are so unhealthy, why are the bushmen superfit and incredibly healthy into old age despite having a significant amount of meat ~25% in their diet? [2] & [3] I recognize that some animals raised on healthy grass-fed diets may have health profiles mor…

What evidence is there that bushmen have a long healthy life? Please don’t cite a YouTube video or blog as a reference.

Find a bushman that lives a bushman life but has access to modern medicine facilities first, then we can ask that question.

Because this is exactly how bad dietary research is done. Comparing a bushman with a westerner and drawing conclusions that one diet is healthier than another.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#18

Post by noelwelsh »

RappingBoomer wrote: post #2

I think the reason why academia is trying so hard to demonize meat is because they have pushed grains so hard for so many decades and now the truth about grains and blood sugar is coming out...which makes them look bad

There is no "academia" conspiracy. Academia is made of people. Most of those people just go about doing their work, like everyone else in every other job. A few commit fraud, and a few conspire with others with others to commit fraud---just like every other job.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#19

Post by anonimo37 »

I wonder how many of these studies become self-fulfilling prophecies. Imagine the following scenario. A study claiming red meat is harmful is widely reported in the mainstream media. After reading about this study, health conscious people cut back on red meat while people who don't look after their health continue to eat the same quantity red meat. As a result of these changes, studies conducted years later find a stronger correlation between red meat and unhealthy people.

Re: The Latest Study on Red Meat and Heart Disease: A Red Herring

#20

Post by Gatsky »

Unfortunately meat is clearly bad for you in at least one but probably many ways. The most compelling evidence to me is that carnivorous animals have higher rates of death from cancer, see fig 2 of this fascinating study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04224-5
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