Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What ever happened to the transhumanists?

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 448 posts

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#281

Post by fzeroracer »

mise_en_place wrote: post #231
toofy wrote: post #210

We currently have a massive chunk of society who are losing their collective minds about people engaging in the very early iterations of transhumanism—transgender folks. I still regularly encounter people who are spitting angry against transgender folks and then later in the conversation will completely unironically talk about how much they love the cyberpunk genre. Not many of them realize they would be the weird cu…

That's arguing with bad faith and framing the argument incorrectly IMO. Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means. Many are against children joining that lifestyle, which may result in irreparable harm to the child. As an adult, I am on androgen replacement therapy but I am also very careful with it, regularly checking my labs to make sure I don't torch my liver in the process. I can make informed decis…

> That's arguing with bad faith and framing the argument incorrectly IMO. Nobody is " against trans " people

I don't know how you can say that unironically when places like my current state (Texas) have been doing everything in their power to be against trans people. These lifestyle arguments remind me a lot of the exact same stuff people said about anyone gay, that they thought it caused irreparable harm and spread disease.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#282

Post by the_omegist »

fallingfrog wrote: post #243
Rodeoclash wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mention sterility. As a thought experiment, what if the science was perfected that you could change gender perfectly (ala The Culture novels). Would you still feel the same way about it?

Personally I think that would fantastic and fun. Who wouldn’t want to see what life is like on the other side?

95 to 99% of the population...

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#283

Post by ben_w »

causality0 wrote: post #212
toofy wrote: post #210

We currently have a massive chunk of society who are losing their collective minds about people engaging in the very early iterations of transhumanism—transgender folks. I still regularly encounter people who are spitting angry against transgender folks and then later in the conversation will completely unironically talk about how much they love the cyberpunk genre. Not many of them realize they would be the weird cu…

I don't think it's a one-dimensional line with pro/anti modification. For example, if you were against people integrating weapons into their bodies or upward-facing eyes into their feet for looking up skirts, that wouldn't make you anti-transhuman.

I'm a furry. Does "being a (cuddly) werewolf" count as a weapon?

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#284

Post by the_omegist »

viraptor wrote: post #257
mise_en_place wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's arguing with bad faith and framing the argument incorrectly IMO. Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means. Many are against children joining that lifestyle, which may result in irreparable harm to the child. As an adult, I am on androgen replacement therapy but I am also very careful with it, regularly checking my labs to make sure I don't torch my liver in the process. I can make informed decis…

> Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means. Have you ever been on twitter? It will take you a couple of minutes to find people who think that's unnatural, sinful, should be forbidden, they're mentally ill, they're sexual predators by default. I know there are some more moderate ideas, but people completely against do exist.

You're putting in the same bag many complaints, some of which irrational and unproven (sexual predators) and some valid arguments, rooted in philosophical or religious beliefs (unnatural, mental illness).

Moreover, everyone knows twitter is not exactly the place with the healthiest representative sample of mankind...

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#285

Post by fzeroracer »

stale2002 wrote: post #268
LesZedCB wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, you just disagree with them being happy even if it makes them infertile. classic intellectually dishonest HN concern troll

If you stopped acting in bad faith, looking for some gotcha, for one single second, you'd realize that by "unhealthly" they were referring to the effects of hormone treatments, which clearly have significant effects and side effects on the physical body.

People literally do hormone treatments to solve things like pattern baldness. If you're concerned about unhealthy hormone treatments you should probably start with the stuff that's far more common. Finasteride is used for both hair loss as well as hormone therapy for transgender people.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#286

Post by the_omegist »

dragonwriter wrote: post #250
mise_en_place wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's arguing with bad faith and framing the argument incorrectly IMO. Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means. Many are against children joining that lifestyle, which may result in irreparable harm to the child. As an adult, I am on androgen replacement therapy but I am also very careful with it, regularly checking my labs to make sure I don't torch my liver in the process. I can make informed decis…

> . Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means What it means is “actively seeking to eliminate trans people, including by the simple expedient of killing them by means such as prohibiting care that is proven to greatly reduce suicidality in, especially, young trans people.” And lots of people—indeed, entire state governments in the US—are “against trans people”.

> “actively seeking to eliminate trans people,

Put it such extreme and dishonest way, reducing sugar in food it an attempt to eliminate obese people... No , the attribute is not the object.

> indeed, entire state governments in the US—are “against trans people”.

So you deny the rights of a community of people to decide what they deem legal or illegal ? All this for the personal benefit of a (literal) couple of people ?

Should they also be carried in Ferraris to their treatment place?

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#287

Post by fzeroracer »

yarg wrote: post #219
toofy wrote: post #210

We currently have a massive chunk of society who are losing their collective minds about people engaging in the very early iterations of transhumanism—transgender folks. I still regularly encounter people who are spitting angry against transgender folks and then later in the conversation will completely unironically talk about how much they love the cyberpunk genre. Not many of them realize they would be the weird cu…

I really don't feel that's a fair comparison. The transgender community needs to stop pushing the notion that it's healthy and desirable; it's not - it's a devastating hormonal/fertility disorder. We can't even look into the extent to which the androgenisation of humanity is the consequence of the pollutants that we've introduced into the environment. Now, comparing this to trans-humanist body mods - how many of thos…

There are a million things more dangerous to the continuation of the human race than a few people willingly becoming sterile to solve other issues with their body. For decades we were shoving lead into gasoline and poisoning an entire generation for the sake of more money, for example. And the 'androgenization of humanity' seems like some nonsense, considering there's zero data or otherwise to back that up.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#288

Post by mkmk3 »

monstertank wrote: post #228
toofy wrote: post #210

We currently have a massive chunk of society who are losing their collective minds about people engaging in the very early iterations of transhumanism—transgender folks. I still regularly encounter people who are spitting angry against transgender folks and then later in the conversation will completely unironically talk about how much they love the cyberpunk genre. Not many of them realize they would be the weird cu…

Quoted post unavailable.

I read current gender rhetoric as a necessary counter culture that got adopted too readily - only in the sense that it seems like we should have detached from any sense of discrete categories, and now we have to overcome the current doctrine to get to a more flexible and sometimes healthier place, where the culture can become about this kind of self discovery you mention. At least thats the arc I would write if this was fiction, maybe this kind of speculation is unhealthy in this forum...

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#289

Post by Elinvynia »

mkmk3 wrote: post #279
lostgame wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that were the case - but it’s a significantly smaller fraction than it needs to be. The largest fraction of the anti-transgender movement is clearly the American conservative Christian right, who has completely chosen to ignore human rights in favour of Old Testament values. (Source: I’m transgender, and I’m terrified what’s going on in the USA.)

The fraction of people who want to prevent children transitioning or claiming youre a different gender, versus people against general body mods, is smaller than it needs to be? That might be a really good point if true.

Transitioning for small children is literally just wearing different clothing.

When they get a bit older, at most they can extremely rarely (due to people pushing against it, even though it reduces suicide rates and saves lives!) get puberty blockers.

Those can then be stopped with minimal consequences if they decide that's not something they wanna do. What is actually cruel is FORCING kids to undergo their AGAB puberty against their will.

We know they are safe, we know they save lives. The vast majority of uses for puberty blockers are still cis children that have early puberty.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#290

Post by viraptor »

the_omegist wrote: post #284
viraptor wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means. Have you ever been on twitter? It will take you a couple of minutes to find people who think that's unnatural, sinful, should be forbidden, they're mentally ill, they're sexual predators by default. I know there are some more moderate ideas, but people completely against do exist.

You're putting in the same bag many complaints, some of which irrational and unproven (sexual predators) and some valid arguments, rooted in philosophical or religious beliefs (unnatural, mental illness). Moreover, everyone knows twitter is not exactly the place with the healthiest representative sample of mankind...

The claim wasn't that it was a common, healthy, or well researched opinion. Just that it exists, unlike what the parent wrote.
Post reply on HN