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Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#191

Post by [deleted] »

wernercd wrote: post #151
bandyaboot wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposing, though not necessarily contradictory cliche is of course some variation of “a lie makes it around the world before the truth is out of bed”. That’s the problem, there’s plenty of situations where the lie has done it’s damage long before the truth can achieve much beyond the academic.

and it's still more important to have free speech because who decides "truth" and "lie"... and what happens when those in power switch and the other side decides. Want Biden or Obama to have some power? Are you going to be okay with Bush or Trump gets that power?

[deleted]

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#193

Post by kube-system »

Kaze404 wrote: post #176
andrewljohnson wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

InfoWars made $800K in one day, not _per_ day. Jones claims that was their best day ever. Which makes total sense to me... businesses have huge boom days, and plaintiff lawyers will happily imply you should multiply that figure by 365 days.

If you divide it by 20 before multiplying by 365, which is a charitable read to say the least, it would still be an insane amount of money.

Is 20x charitable? For many highly political topics attention varies wildly between times when it is topical and when it is not. And further, some big contributors may contribute zero on most days, and contribute huge sums on one day.

Many political fundraisers bring in large fractions of their income on only during a few key days or events.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#194

Post by stjohnswarts »

dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Actually, no, the jury verdict on punitive damages is $45.2 million, but that is certain to be reduced before Jones is ordered to pay (there seems to be some dispute over whether a portion of the compensatory damages award is economic or not, and depending on the answer on that, the cap under Texas statutory punitive damages caps would seem to be somewhere between $750k and $1m; even if the plaintiffs succeed in thei…

Sure, the judge gets final say but they rarely change these things unless the jury awards something ridiculous like a billion dollars for a broken bone.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#195

Post by stjohnswarts »

roenxi wrote: post #108
dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Actually, no, the jury verdict on punitive damages is $45.2 million, but that is certain to be reduced before Jones is ordered to pay (there seems to be some dispute over whether a portion of the compensatory damages award is economic or not, and depending on the answer on that, the cap under Texas statutory punitive damages caps would seem to be somewhere between $750k and $1m; even if the plaintiffs succeed in thei…

If Jones can afford to pay any of these figures that it says interesting things about how ineffective deplatforming is and really rather undermines the "big tech is a monopoly!" argument. Most people can't make $4 million in a lifetime, let alone these figures.

It's not effective because he was able to build a rabid group of suckers. He always mentioned his website all over and steered people to it.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#196

Post by giantrobot »

golergka wrote: post #116
spuz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about this trial that stands out to you? I can tell you it's a very unusual example of a civil trial in the US so I'm not sure how it is supposed to compare with a criminal trial in Russia.

The fact that it is recorded and available to the wide audience. The fact that the prosecution actually had to present evidence. The fact that a wide audience actually cares about this trial. The fact that this trial is covered by the media. The fact that the whole trial takes more than half an hour. The fact that the defendant only risks his money but not his freedom.

Just a small correction, this is a civil case so there's no prosecution but instead a plaintiff. The workings of civil and criminal trials are similar though, the plaintiff has to make a case in court like a criminal prosecution would. Also in civil cases can result in criminal charges for things like contempt of court and perjury. Those are separate criminal proceedings but you can't just go into a civil trial and lie or otherwise break the law.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#197

Post by jen20 »

martin1975 wrote: post #157

The chance of AJ paying out any money on this will be slim to nil, IMHO. I have no idea how they even came up with that figure on those parents other than some lawyer thought it'd be cool to just ask for so much money because they figure AJ can afford it. If there are any real damages, they are certainly not in the stratospheric amounts the jury awarded....

> If there are any real damages, they are certainly not in the stratospheric amounts the jury awarded

“Punitive”.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#198

Post by friesfreeze »

kypro wrote: post #163

Quoted post unavailable.

> People should be able to monetize lies.

What? No.

> And people should be able to say things about people or companies that might cause a crazy person to do something crazy.

Yeah sure, but that's not the issue here.

> If the parents of Sandy Hook were harassed then the issue here is surely the harassers?

False dilemma.

> The reason I worry about this is because if I believe someone is doing something evil does that mean I now have to stay silent in case some crazy person agrees with what I'm saying and does something crazy?

AJ was accused of defamation. There is free speech protection for alleged defamatory statements. If statement regards a public figure, must be knowing or reckless with regard to truth. If not a public figure, must be at least negligent.

> I suppose I don't really understand what was illegal here.

He defamed the parents by claiming they were crisis actors in the Sandy hook shooting. While perhaps not criminal, it is damaging to their reputation and the victims are entitled to compensation.

> I also think $50m is simply an insane amount of money.

(1) Sure, the defense bar would love you and (2) that what the jury found and (3) those are punitive damages - i.e. damages set to punish the defamer. $50m in damages need not be done and can be multiples of actual without any constitutional issues.

> What damages were actually done here?

Alex Jones harmed the reputation of the parents and families related to the Sandy Hook shooting.

> $50m for "emotional distress" is ridiculous in any context.

This is more of punishment than compensation. Personally, I can get on board for especially bad actors, but to each their own.

> To those who agree with this, could you help me understand what Alex Jones did here that's any difference to what someone like Joe Rogan does when he accuses individuals like Klaus Schwab of being involved in some global conspiracy?

I mean to start, Klaus Schwab is a public figure so the bar for fault is higher. Also, Schwab might figure that it is not worth suing.

> Is it simply that Joe Rogan tends to accuse people with some meaningful about of fame evil conspiracies?

Idk I don't listen to Joe Rogan lol.

> And if so, what level of fame does someone have to have before it's legal to say what you think about them in public?

I mean if you are flat out lying and know you are lying - basically never. But if you are acting in good faith you have some protection. Just look up defamation on wikipedia - it's not rocket science.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#199

Post by stjohnswarts »

Rackedup wrote: post #190
wnevets wrote: post #24

He got off easy considering he was profiting by ruining these people's lives

Quoted post unavailable.

He added a lot of undue trauma and made them the target of his rabid followers and they were constantly (and still are) inundated with harassing calls/emails/etc up to and including regular death threats, and some of Jones' unstable cult are fully capable of being mentally ill enough to do that. What would it be like to constantly be looking over your shoulder for someone ready to blow your head off

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#200

Post by kypro »

58028641 wrote: post #171
kypro wrote: post #163

Quoted post unavailable.

Are you saying stochastic terrorism should be legal?

Maybe? I don't think Madonna did anything illegal when she suggested someone should blow up the White House, for example. Would that count as stochastic terrorism?

I don't believe that someone should ever be held responsible for the actions of someone else. It seems strange to me that what I'm legally allowed to say is limited based on whether a lunatic is likely to do something stupid.

Also was this even terrorism? The article says they just caused "emotional distress".

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