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Thinking with pen and paper

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Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#101

Post by nordsieck »

s0rce wrote: post #84
user00012-ab wrote: post #59

I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them. Seems like all these blog posts are, "I Started doing this yesterday, and I'm going to do it for the rest of my life... or tomorrow when I blog my next big thing I'm going to do forever." I'm more interested in stuff people have stuck with and actually works for them when the novelty of the medium we…

I've used pen and paper for years (since my PhD 15 years ago). Writing it down helps it go into my head, I don't go back and look at the notes.

> Writing it down helps it go into my head

This is what I've found as well.

In high school, a gym teacher forced us to copy his slides for sex ed. At the time I thought it was completely stupid. But come test time, it was amazing how much I remembered. Like you, I've never felt the need to re-read my notes - just writing down the information has been enough.

I've carried the habit with me, and it's continued to work well for me.

Something about hand writing is just much more effective than typing. I wish it weren't so.

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#102

Post by selimthegrim »

nordsieck wrote: post #100
user00012-ab wrote: post #59

I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them. Seems like all these blog posts are, "I Started doing this yesterday, and I'm going to do it for the rest of my life... or tomorrow when I blog my next big thing I'm going to do forever." I'm more interested in stuff people have stuck with and actually works for them when the novelty of the medium we…

> I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them. Here's the one thing that's stuck with me: I started carrying earplugs with me in 2002. I was forced into it by the Army, but I've kept it up all these years because of how great it is. They completely disappear into the pocket, and when you want them, you *really* want them. But they're great, eve…

You can’t reuse them you mean

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#103

Post by nordsieck »

Archelaos wrote: post #81
Syzygies wrote: post #55

I can remember rolling my eyes at a writer using a mechanical typewriter decades after word processors had taken over. Did they thaw out of a glacier? At the same time I love physical media. As a math professor I defend a widespread preference for blackboards over soul-sucking whiteboards, imagining that musicians will still play grand pianos in a century, and they'll still snicker over Ryan Gosling playing a toy pia…

> I defend a widespread preference for blackboards over soul-sucking whiteboards To this day it is a real mystery to me why people would prefer whiteboards over blackboards.

> To this day it is a real mystery to me why people would prefer whiteboards over blackboards.

I vastly prefer whiteboards over blackboards. It's the physical sensation of writing for me.

Using markers is smooth, a bit like writing with a pen on paper. Writing with chalk is rough and technically difficult - there is a component of pressure one needs to master.

It's not obvious to me how the finished product is any better with a blackboard or a whiteboard (although I've heard several people try). Or how whiteboards are "soul-sucking". People who prefer blackboards seem like those who prefer vinyl over CDs, but with even fewer coherent arguments. Which is fine - everyone has a hobby - but maybe be a little less vitriolic about it?

Whiteboards do have the downside of staining over time, but using glass is a foolproof solution to that particular problem. It's amazing how inexpensively one can find very large, used, glass-covered picture or art frames.

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#104

Post by tomtheelder »

runjake wrote: post #91

A few gripes about the post: 1. It appears the author hasn’t been doing this long, judging by their Twitter feed. I’m more interested when somebody’s been at something for a year or two. The whole “I’ve switched to $thing and it’s changed everything!” is always fun when it was written soon after the switch. Even funnier when you visit it a few months after and they’re back on the old thing. See also operating system…

I think these are fair gripes. Would love to add my perspective:

1. I've been handwriting notes for about 2 years now, after typing all my notes before that. I generally agree with the author's points. My take on it, which I think they sort of had their own spin on, is that "notes" is an unhelpfully broad category. You record different things for different reasons. A todo is very different from jotting down a novel idea. So I have an Obsidian vault and a notebook.

The notebook is for my ephemeral notes. That includes any information whose lifespan is less than ~1 week, so usually quick thoughts about imminent meetings or todos for the next day or so. It also includes any time I'm taking notes strictly for my sake when the information can be referenced later. For example, my own personal thoughts during a meeting that has shared notes. In my opinion handwriting is better for that sort of stuff: I think it focuses you, it slows down your thinking a little, and it makes you more likely to remember what you wrote.

Obsidian is for archival notes. Things I may need to reference in the future. That's where I keep any longer running todos/projects, as well as any more detailed/complex info that I might not remember but want to reference in the future. Not infrequently I'll take something I jotted down in my notebook and add it to Obsidian if it seems like it might be useful in the future.

I find this split to be very effective for me personally. YMMV!

2. Totally agree. I doubt most people need or benefit from actually getting into Zettelkasten.

3. That seems very reasonable. I think for me personally it would be a bit of a hassle given how rarely I have a need to go back through my written notes.

So yeah tl;dr would be: I think handwritten notes are the ideal way to record information that you're not going to need for more than a few days tops, but I'd hate to have to dig through my old notebooks looking for something.

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#105

Post by nordsieck »

selimthegrim wrote: post #102
nordsieck wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them. Here's the one thing that's stuck with me: I started carrying earplugs with me in 2002. I was forced into it by the Army, but I've kept it up all these years because of how great it is. They completely disappear into the pocket, and when you want them, you *really* want them. But they're great, eve…

You can’t reuse them you mean

> You can’t reuse them you mean

You mean foam earplugs? You absolutely can reuse them.

You can't reuse them if they get wet (they don't stay compressed when you roll them up - a necessary step before inserting them). And I throw them out if they get too dirty.

But I generally get 7-15 uses out of a set of foam plugs before I chuck them. It depends on how much I sweat when I'm using them, and how dirty my ears are.

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#106

Post by tomtheelder »

coldblues wrote: post #68

For me, what feels like quicksand, is writing on paper. I type very fast on my keyboard 120+ WPM. I want to get my thoughts out of my head as soon as possible, and shape them fast with immediate feedback. My notes are very random and they're all over the place, yet all easily interconnected and searchable because of backlinks and some minimal organization. If I were taking physical notes, I would not have as many not…

It depends what you're optimizing for. I'm not sure I'd consider volume of notes to be a positive metric. I'm not convinced motivation is either.

When I handwrite I absolutely write less. It's harder and slower. But for the types of things I use handwriting for I think that's a plus. I tend to put more thought into what I'm recording. In my personal experience the outcomes are better.

I type notes as well, very frequently, but for archival content. Things I want to be able to reference in the future.

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#107

Post by drekipus »

YeBanKo wrote: post #99

Tangentially related question, maybe someone can explain why graph/quad/grid ruled notepads are harder to find and way more expensive. I can easily get college ruled notepad for $.50-$1 almost in any department store, but graph ruled are significantly more expensive ($4-$5) and less common.

Market forces. Grid is in less supply because it's not as demanded

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#108

Post by drekipus »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #48
mikeholler wrote: post #8

I started bullet journaling with pen and paper and it has changed my life. Intentionality -- that's exactly right. When I write I feel intentional. I've also dove into the world of nice paper and fountain pens. I've always had hand cramps when writing, whether using a cheap Bic or a Pilot G7. With fountain pens, that's all gone, and writing is effortless. You can get started with this cheaply by getting a platinum pr…

> You want a fine or extra-fine nib, because anything else will feather and bleed on cheap paper, but fine or extra-fine works just fine on cheap paper. It does depend on the ink, too. I have a Parker XF nib that will absolutely bleed through my notebook, which wasn't exactly cheap either. Not sure if it's supposed to be actually "good paper", though (Leichtturm), but I'm quite disappointed. Diamine ink will take for…

As a Leichtturm convert, I think they've degraded a little bit. I have an old and new notebook from them and to me it seems night and day difference.

It's a real shame

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#109

Post by dumpsterlid »

dwringer wrote: post #66
dakr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a syringe to refill cartridges from whatever bottle of ink I want to use. The cartridges can be reused many many times. edit: lol, if I had reloaded the page before commenting, I would have seen all of these people saying the same thing!

> edit: [...] Every time fountain pens come up on HN I'm amazed how active the discussion gets.

I mean, how important is the pen as a tool to human history? The pen is one of the most important human inventions and the fountain pen is by far the coolest version of it :P

Re: Thinking with pen and paper

#110

Post by JonChesterfield »

I wrote code on paper occasionally. Anyone else? Don't see an existing comment about it.

Notebook, multicoloured pen, usually C or lisp syntax. Tends to be thinking through data structures. Kills the temptation to check my work by running it which forces me to think harder about the intended execution.

edit: used to use whiteboards for the same purpose but sadly don't have one at present

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