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My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

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Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#321

Post by hinkley »

avnigo wrote: post #36

I had a feeling this was gonna be about 3D Touch just from seeing the title. It was definitely one of my favorite features, and Force Touch isn't a drop-in replacement. With 3D Touch anywhere on the keyboard, you could apply pressure to start moving the caret (text cursor) around, but what was even more useful was being able to apply a little bit more pressure to start selecting text with incredible precision . With…

That feature is probably part of how I started having random bits of text just get deleted and typing start in the middle of a block of text.

That behavior was very, very frustrating.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#322

Post by kergonath »

egypturnash wrote: post #208
gwright wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is zero discoverability The shortcuts associated with menu items are shown in the menu item. I realize that there other discovery problems with keyboard shortcuts (on all platforms) but there is non-zero discoverability for "the most basic things" on Mac OS. Gesture discoverability is much closer to zero, IMHO.

what you mean most people don't go explore every single page of the System Preferences when they get a new computer and look at all the helpful animations in the Gestures pane, I'm shocked (yeah this is the computing equivalent of a locked file cabinet in a disused toilet stall in a dark basement with a sign on the door that says "Beware The Leopard")

> yeah this is the computing equivalent of a locked file cabinet in a disused toilet stall in a dark basement with a sign on the door that says "Beware The Leopard"

OTOH it makes complete sense to have a look at the Trackpad pane to see how it works. It’s not like it’s hidden behind a defaults command line, and it even has movies. It’s much worse on phones.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#323

Post by hinkley »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #258
xt00 wrote: post #209

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I really did not like the feature and many people I tried to explain the feature to were confused that it existed.. “no no don’t tap the screen, you need to PUSH on the screen to make it do the action”.. and I would get a look like “huh?? Push on the screen? Why what’s that gonna do..” people saying pushing hard on the screen is intuitive seemed to live in a different bubble of peop…

I kinda agree, but also... NOTHING about modern phones is "intuitive". Every time I have to introduce a modern phone to a 70yo+ family member, I come to that realization promptly. Swipe from bottom to switch programs? Swipe from top left and top right to get different (IMPORTANT!) panels? Why are three lines a "Menu"? But sometimes it's dots, or a gear icon, and they're never in the same place. On iPhone, there's no…

I think we definitely transitioned into frog boiling a long time ago, but that has played out in other industries too. You just only get to see it first hand when you're working with an absolute beginner.

There are so many more buttons in cars now than when I first started driving. I've mostly adapted to them, except when I have to drive a friends car and everything is in the wrong fucking place. WE DO NOT NEED TO MOVE CRUISE CONTROL THANK YOU. And don't get me started about breaking the gear shift lever. There are hidden features in the old design that apparently the new designers didn't know about, but anyone who drives for a living or just cosplays at being an advanced driver knows about slapping an automatic transmission from reverse into drive...

Anyway, point is that I don't envy children trying to figure out all of the stalks and buttons on a modern car, and then immediately trying to figure out how to merge into highway traffic. It's no wonder everyone is waiting until they're older to drive. Smartphones feel categorically similar in their evolution.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#324

Post by Elidrake42 »

empyrrhicist wrote: post #156
voqv wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will probably soon add an old 3D Touch iphone to my small Human Machine Interface hall of fame along with the old click wheel iPod Classic. They probably removed it because nobody was using it and they couldn't figure out how to teach people, while spending extra $ to add it into phones.

As if they put any effort whatsoever into teaching or UI discoverability these days. If there was a tutorial app I would have used it, but I have repeatedly had to use Google to find unrelated blog sites describing how to accomplish things in the iOS interface. Cynically, it feels like they think everyone should already "just know" how the various gestures work, which is obnoxious and user hostile.

Not only is there a tutorial app ("Tips") but you receive a notification pointing you towards it shortly after setting up a new iOS device. Also after major iOS updates. So... Yeah I suppose you're making their point for them, to an extent.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#325

Post by pixl97 »

roywiggins wrote: post #270
NikolaNovak wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree, but also... NOTHING about modern phones is "intuitive". Every time I have to introduce a modern phone to a 70yo+ family member, I come to that realization promptly. Swipe from bottom to switch programs? Swipe from top left and top right to get different (IMPORTANT!) panels? Why are three lines a "Menu"? But sometimes it's dots, or a gear icon, and they're never in the same place. On iPhone, there's no…

My first encounter with a computer was somewhat unsuccessful until I was introduced to the concept of the double-click. You mean I have to click icons twice - and not too slowly- to make them do anything useful?

Trying to teach people how to double click, fast enough, and without moving the mouse was not easy back in the day. What I had already done millions of times without thinking was and extremely difficult task for some people.

There are times I want to set the 250k+ per year developers, and the board room committees arguing if 30 or 40 ms is the appropriate touch time down with one of these users and see if they can succeed in teaching them the interface.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#326

Post by xsmasher »

bombcar wrote: post #195
voqv wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will probably soon add an old 3D Touch iphone to my small Human Machine Interface hall of fame along with the old click wheel iPod Classic. They probably removed it because nobody was using it and they couldn't figure out how to teach people, while spending extra $ to add it into phones.

These features really need games added, where the only real requirement to play is learn the new feature. Some say it's why minesweeper et al were added to Windows, so people could learn how to use the mouse.

That's a great idea. Steam deck comes with a short game - Aperture desk job - that tests all of the controls. I didn't know it had a gyro until I played that game.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#328

Post by mrtksn »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #294
mrtksn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as much as I miss it every time I fail to accurately select text on iOS, I don't mourn its loss Yes, it's slightly worse now but for a greater cause and the greater cause, IMHO, is the unified interaction model on mobile devices. If not all devices and apps are using it there's no reason to having it. In the Android world there are tons of exotic stuff, novel ideas and even "standards" that go nowhere unle…

> There is a magic in general availability. I think, if all Apple devices had it, it could have been possible to rely on its existence and build the UI with that assumption in mind. With just some devices having it, you need to have few versions of the UI to handle each case. The way you get there is by putting it into everything for several years. Cutting it after three is the opposite of working for that greater ca…

What if it's not feasible on iPad?

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#329

Post by CharlesW »

happyopossum wrote: post #250
avnigo wrote: post #36

I had a feeling this was gonna be about 3D Touch just from seeing the title. It was definitely one of my favorite features, and Force Touch isn't a drop-in replacement. With 3D Touch anywhere on the keyboard, you could apply pressure to start moving the caret (text cursor) around, but what was even more useful was being able to apply a little bit more pressure to start selecting text with incredible precision . With…

> Force Touch Force Touch was the same tech as 3D Touch, first introduced on the watch. It was rebranded for the iPhone when the pressure sensitivity stuff was added. It's current replacement is Haptic Touch .

> Force Touch was the same tech as 3D Touch…

"Both 3D Touch and Haptic Touch fall under the umbrella of Force Touch functionality. This is Apple's general name for its technology that lets input devices distinguish between different levels of pressure when you touch them."

https://www.makeuseof.com/apple-force-touch-3d-touch-haptic-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Touch

So, 3D Touch was one implementation of Force Touch.

Re: My favorite iPhone feature was removed, long live its subpar replacement

#330

Post by jjoonathan »

gwright wrote: post #187
everyone wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who only occasionally has to use macOS and iOS for work. The gestures and key combos required to do even the most basic things are insane.. and there is (almost) zero discoverability or affordances for them. On iOS gestures with multiple fingers, on macOS keyboard shortcuts with 3 or 4 keys. I also dont often use Linux, but I could try some new distro with a completely different windows manager I have neve…

> there is zero discoverability The shortcuts associated with menu items are shown in the menu item. I realize that there other discovery problems with keyboard shortcuts (on all platforms) but there is non-zero discoverability for "the most basic things" on Mac OS. Gesture discoverability is much closer to zero, IMHO.

Mac OS Help menu search is spectacular for discoverability. Start typing what you want and it pops up the menu with an arrow and it shows you the shortcut.

Everyone else does it worse, except maybe the VSCode command palette.

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