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What is the cost of a cashless society?

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Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#151

Post by perf1 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #145

I think a cashless society can work perfectly well. There's a single place that I still use cash with because they don't take card (probably avoiding tax) so every time I go there, I come back with change to tip to delivery people when I order food. Everything from my rent to my grocery shopping is done digitally and I honestly think it's great. However, that's probably because I live in a debit-based country. Debit…

It's a receipt for disaster. Especially if they centralize it even more by replacing banks with a Central Bank that fully controls the Digital Currency. Which they are already planning and testing. This will be misused. And people can be controlled with this in a really bad way. If your Social Credit Score is low you could be taxed higher or even forbidden to drive your car or travel, for example. Your food choices could be restricted at any moment too if you don't behave.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#152

Post by desas »

john_the_writer wrote: post #92
kevincox wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give me the choice between being able to buy a loaf of bread and having my payments private I'm feeding myself ten times out of ten. I'm not saying that privacy isn't important but I don't think it is the main problem compared to people being unable to use currency.

What if you get arrested because you buy a pride flag? Or if you get killed because you use a service? What if you get arrested because you sold a train ticket to someone who doesn't have enough "social credit" to buy said train ticket?

Then your society has bigger problems than how purchases are carried out.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#153

Post by perf1 »

imtringued wrote: post #112
cmroanirgo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to government tactics, a lot of australians are now deliberately using cash a) for the privacy b) as a statement against orwellian mechanisms. I find it really sad when people are blaise about something that once gone, can't be put back. A social credit system, & everyone talking about it as an inevitable thing, have already bought into the propaganda. I find it inevitable that with sentiments like that, that i'l…

There are anonymous payment services. Just mandate the use of those in the laws.

Is this meant as a joke? Because almost the whole world is working on outlawing or "regulating" these and they aren't even anonymous most of the time. Not being controlled and centralized is threatening enough.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#154

Post by mdp2021 »

grecy wrote: post #126
EdwardDiego wrote: post #91

New Zealand has gone largely cashless (and entirely chequeless). Everyone is paid by direct credit to their account. You pay your bills via direct credit / debit. I don't think any bank is charging fees (for customers) for electronic transactions via card, or direct credits/debits. They don't even charge a fee for using another bank's ATM anymore. I am always amazed at how often people in the US mention cheques. NZ r…

> I am always amazed at how often people in the US mention cheques. Banking in the US is like going back in time 20 years. Even when I flew through Dallas and LAX during the height of COVID I had to hand my credit card over for someone to swipe, then pickup a pen that thousands of others had touched to sign a piece of paper. I've been tapping to pay exclusively for years and forgot about all that ancient stuff.

> then pickup a pen that thousands of others had touched

Bring your own pen. It is presumed that you bring around a few essentials.

Edit: on the other hand (pun unintended), some operations of electronic money transfer here require people signing on tablets through pens that are of common use and will more hardly be replaced by an owned item.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#155

Post by phist_mcgee »

kurthr wrote: post #129
EdwardDiego wrote: post #91

New Zealand has gone largely cashless (and entirely chequeless). Everyone is paid by direct credit to their account. You pay your bills via direct credit / debit. I don't think any bank is charging fees (for customers) for electronic transactions via card, or direct credits/debits. They don't even charge a fee for using another bank's ATM anymore. I am always amazed at how often people in the US mention cheques. NZ r…

In the US checks (cheques) are used mostly for significant transactions, because it acts as a contract. As a consumer you can easily get away with using electronic or credit/debit transactions for almost everything. However, some transactions over $5-10k are worth using checks. If you get a car loan, you don't need a check, but if you pay "cash" then a check is most likely preferred by you and the dealer. For house d…

I think that's a solution looking for a problem.

Payment via bank transfer is also a contract, the dispute resolution is no different. I don't see how a promise note on a piece of paper somehow protects you better than an electronic transfer that is visible to you, the other party, the bank, and to authorities.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#156

Post by phist_mcgee »

mdp2021 wrote: post #154
grecy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am always amazed at how often people in the US mention cheques. Banking in the US is like going back in time 20 years. Even when I flew through Dallas and LAX during the height of COVID I had to hand my credit card over for someone to swipe, then pickup a pen that thousands of others had touched to sign a piece of paper. I've been tapping to pay exclusively for years and forgot about all that ancient stuff.

> then pickup a pen that thousands of others had touched Bring your own pen. It is presumed that you bring around a few essentials. Edit: on the other hand (pun unintended), some operations of electronic money transfer here require people signing on tablets through pens that are of common use and will more hardly be replaced by an owned item.

"Essentials"

Much of the western world is near-digital at this point.

I handwrite things so rarely these days that my handwriting has reverted back to year 6 level.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#157

Post by phist_mcgee »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #6
kevincox wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give me the choice between being able to buy a loaf of bread and having my payments private I'm feeding myself ten times out of ten. I'm not saying that privacy isn't important but I don't think it is the main problem compared to people being unable to use currency.

If you give me the choice between a government that tries to force me to cede my autonomy and my privacy in order to buy a loaf of bread or go hungry, I'm sharpening my pitchfork and lighting my torch ten times out of ten.

You cede your autonomy every time you transact in US dollars.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#158

Post by phist_mcgee »

dannyw wrote: post #82
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #32

Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…

Australia is not cashless, it's just that cash is infrequently used. You can easily get cash out at ATMs, to buy some weed from a dealer or for buying second hand goods from other people on Facebook Marketplace. You can pay your groceries with cash, or any bill at a post office.

You'd be surprised at the number of people buying drugs using PayID.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#159

Post by animal531 »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #91

New Zealand has gone largely cashless (and entirely chequeless). Everyone is paid by direct credit to their account. You pay your bills via direct credit / debit. I don't think any bank is charging fees (for customers) for electronic transactions via card, or direct credits/debits. They don't even charge a fee for using another bank's ATM anymore. I am always amazed at how often people in the US mention cheques. NZ r…

Many countries in Africa are probably leading the way. Central and up uses phones as a virtual card, they send cash around with their phones using different types of sms/digital technologies.

In the south such as South Africa a lot of people have some form of bank card (apart from the people on the very bottom of society). As such those people on the bottom are affected by being cashless, because for example people might no longer carry around cash to hand out to the needy on street corners etc.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#160

Post by mdp2021 »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #156
mdp2021 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then pickup a pen that thousands of others had touched Bring your own pen. It is presumed that you bring around a few essentials. Edit: on the other hand (pun unintended), some operations of electronic money transfer here require people signing on tablets through pens that are of common use and will more hardly be replaced by an owned item.

"Essentials" Much of the western world is near-digital at this point. I handwrite things so rarely these days that my handwriting has reverted back to year 6 level.

> Much of the western world [...] // I ... so rarely these days that ... reverted back to year 6 level

Don't blame it on the "West". I have rights to blame my rage on the "west". There are no rights to blame what you are not forced to (in this case, e.g. that you abandoned doing math and solving through state-of-the-art "wits hand stick and surface").

Nonetheless, we were talking about signatures.

> «Essentials»

With «essentials» of course I meant something that you carry around because you know you may need it owing to the environment - not a absolute personal need (as in "I will take notes"), but a relative contextual need (as in "either I bring mine or I will have to share").

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