On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class • Hacker News Board

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#101

Post by ncmncm » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

akavi wrote: post #81

ncmncm wrote: post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

> you still can't afford to send your kids through college, and still make your house and car payments, replacing your car every year or two. Yes, that was what middle-class people used to do. Where is this halcyon universe where the median (or even the 75th percentile) American: * Paid for their children to go to college * Bought a new car every other year 'Cause that doesn't resemble any point in the past century o…

The memory hole has proven very effective.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#102

Post by RexM » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 2:04 AM UTC

icedchai wrote: post #76

legitster wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> median household assets (minus the house) at age 65-69 is $75K Why would you take out the house? For most people that's a key part of their retirement. Going into retirement as a renter or with a $500k home paid outright is one of the biggest difference makers.

Selling your house takes time. In a bad economy, it could take a lot of time. Knowing your "liquid" net worth has some value.

But if you own your home you don’t have to worry about paying for a place to live (taxes aside.)

I do see how knowing what your liquid net worth is has some value, but knowing your expenses has value, too.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#103

Post by rakeshsharmak » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 2:45 AM UTC

I was suddenly middle-class-ish for a brief period last year. I have been mostly on the poor side for almost 14 years. To give you an example, I earned around $7,000 in all of 2014 and my average monthly income from 2016 through 2018 was $1800.

I did what was necessary - learned to cook, worked odd jobs, moved around frequently to find cheap accommodation, slept on all sorts of beddings and, sometimes, on the street, abstained from luxuries and travel etc - during this time.

Then, last year, I found a sweet gig and my income suddenly rose way beyond my expectations (around $6,000 per month). That was also the time I moved to a new apartment. I spent some of the new money on furnishings and living a comfortable life - not thinking twice about splurging on a meal or clothing. I invested in the stock market and opened an IRA account.

At the back of my mind, however, there was a nagging feeling that it wouldn't last. Sure enough, I lost the gig in February this year and am surviving on IRA money and credit cards. I forgot to cash out of the stock market near the top and suffered losses of almost $3,000. I am loathe to move out of my current place though I have a feeling I will have to, eventually. I am back to cooking all my meals and thinking twice before making purchases.

I am not sure if it is a cycle but poverty is definitely a mindset. I've been on the other side where I was making decent money that allowed me to live comfortably (not ostentatiously). I was in a better mental state. Lately, I have been pretty depressed (although things are not as bad as they were in 2014) and exhausted all the time.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#104

Post by effingwewt » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 3:01 AM UTC

rakeshsharmak wrote: post #103

I was suddenly middle-class-ish for a brief period last year. I have been mostly on the poor side for almost 14 years. To give you an example, I earned around $7,000 in all of 2014 and my average monthly income from 2016 through 2018 was $1800. I did what was necessary - learned to cook, worked odd jobs, moved around frequently to find cheap accommodation, slept on all sorts of beddings and, sometimes, on the street,…

I'd advise moving out asap. That drain on your finances if no longer making the same will hurt you badly. If you've the funds you should find something you can afford long-term.

The savings from that alone could help you with future bills and living should you not be fortunate enough to find another good paying gig quickly.

Just two cents from someone who's been there.

I'm rooting for you and hope it turns out even better.

As 2-D from Gorillaz would say 'It'll be alright, in the end. And if it's not alright, it's not the end.'

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#105

Post by rayiner » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 3:35 AM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #99

rayiner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your kids through college, and still make your house and car payments, replacing your car every year or two. Yes, that was what middle-class people used to do. This is a complete delusion designed to justify affluent people asserting they’re “middle class.” Americans never lived like that. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, most people didn’t even go to college. They live…

> You know why many Americans are on the edge of medical bankruptcy? It’s nothing to do with the tax rate, and entirely to do with the insane insurance system that does not even try to keep costs reasonable. The UK gets this correct with the same tax rates (when you include property tax) as the US.

That might be a plausible explanation if it wasn't for the fact that many government services in America cost vastly more than their equivalents in Europe: public education, public infrastructure construction, etc. Even advocates of universal healthcare like Elizabeth Warren don't argue they could achieve universal coverage without a trillion+ in annual spending increases.

Also, the UK does not have similar taxes to the US: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-states.pd.... US taxes, at all levels, are 25.5% of GDP. UK is 32.8%. And those taxes in the UK fall much more heavily on the middle class. That's partly because the brackets are tighter (the 40% rate kicks in at 50,000 pounds, and the top rate of 45% kicks in at only 150,000 pounds). But also because a huge fraction of revenues is from the 20% VAT.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#106

Post by rufus_foreman » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

legitster wrote: post #7

I can relate to a lot of this, I was pretty stinking poor growing up. Now I make good money. (I still buy used tires from shady lots tho). But even now that I'm making good money, it boggles my mind how richer everyone else still seems. Like, how do so many young people have a favorite island in Hawaii? How is everyone out there affording new cars? People actually picked a college major without thinking about cost? O…

I read all of this in Rodney Dangerfield's voice.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#107

Post by yusefnapora » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 4:42 AM UTC

danrocks wrote: post #30

I have been poor in a poor country and now I’m not. I make mid-high six figures and just bought a house. I have five years of expenses saved up and could extend it to ten with the right moves. Still, sleeping at night is hard, imagining that everything could collapse at any moment - I don’t know how I would explain to my kid that “we don’t have money anymore”. This feeling permeates every interaction I have at work -…

It's funny how your brain is able to convince you that the immediate consequence of "get fired" is "become poor," even though you have a five year buffer in which to regroup.

I'm afraid there's simply no amount of money that can possibly remove the feeling that everything could collapse at any moment. If your sense of security is predicated on continuing to possess money, you will always be vulnerable to the fear of losing it, no matter how much you accrue.

If you won the lottery tomorrow, what makes you think you wouldn't worry about losing that money too?

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#108

Post by vanadium » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 5:33 AM UTC

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #58

legitster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, it can be all over the place. On one hand, the first time I had a corporate job I certainly felt very naked being the one guy with a ratty car in the parking lot. On the other hand, you might have a CEO proudly drinks cheap beer and wears Kirkland Signature workboots to the office.

You definitely won’t have a CEO who proudly drives a ratty car. Sorry but it doesn’t go both ways.

Let’s de-escalate it to relative car value to income then, in which case I’d say Warren Buffett is a good candidate. While you might not consider it ratty, it’s still pretty grounded and emblematic of frugality, all things considered.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#109

Post by Feritioyyyyy » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 6:59 AM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #15

legitster wrote: post #7

I can relate to a lot of this, I was pretty stinking poor growing up. Now I make good money. (I still buy used tires from shady lots tho). But even now that I'm making good money, it boggles my mind how richer everyone else still seems. Like, how do so many young people have a favorite island in Hawaii? How is everyone out there affording new cars? People actually picked a college major without thinking about cost? O…

I couldn't help but do the same thing when I was reading the article, in the opposite direction: "wait - you had a wife and you were poor?" When I was young and my income was low or nonexistent, it seemed like women could smell the poverty on me and I couldn't even get close to them. It was like trying to sneak up on a grazing gazelle - they'd hear me coming and just sprint to a safe distance. The more money I made,…

Oh boy...

My wife wouldn't and no woman in a relationship I know would care about this either.

Love is not based on income.

That sounds tremendous depressing.

A partnership is teamwork not two doing different things.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#110

Post by lrvick » Fri, Aug 05, 2022, 8:37 AM UTC

putsjoe wrote: post #64

lrvick wrote: post #53

20 years ago I was living in a $100 car with 3 immovable doors that I had to push start and repair every day. I was working 80 hour weeks doing day labor in the mornings and telemarketing in the evenings. I also sometimes did truck deliveries, street magic, random tech gigs from craigslist, PC repair. If there was a craigslist ad with a problem I would learn enough to solve it well enough to get paid and get referral…

Just wanted to say genuinely well done, this is an inspirational post. What would you say kept you going back then? What was your motivation?

I struggled with depression through my teens and early adult years. I began to identify the only way it was quieted was by constantly spending time learning new skills, and making myself measurably less dependent on others, or more useful to others. Only when I have done that recently can I quiet the voices that tell me I am a useless sack of shit. Somewhere along the line the proof my hard work was paying off became easier and easier to see and depression was more and more distant. I simply became addicted to the moments of not feeling depressed because I was proud of a recent win obtained after however many failures required.

I also always noticed a pattern that when people start drinking when they are poor or depressed, they seem to get stuck in that place. I decided I would reward myself with the option of moderated vices only after I was in a reasonably stable, sustainable, and happy place in life and career. I was on my own with nothing at 17 and celebrated my success with my first drink at 25 when I felt like I earned it.

YMMV. I am not a mental health professional.