Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Australia has phone based drivers licenses This is news to me, out here on the West coast. Might have to look into that!
Travelling to the West coast i asked a fellow passenger "how far back should i wind my watch?". "About 20 years" came the reply. :D
What is the cost of a cashless society?
71–80 of 294 posts
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of autonomy, out of food. Out of a job, out of blood. Rising flood raises all ships. The stakes will get higher for all of us. Edit: Besides, the GP's got a slav sounding username. One would be wise not to assume civilization rates in excess of 75%. Strong slavs make bad times. Bad times make strong slavs.
Maybe more Russian sounding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
3% is actually not bad for what it gets you: fraud detection, not having to lug cash to the bank every day, reduction of theft and employee mistakes, better recordkeeping for taxes, a way to handle refunds, and cleanliness. Small merchants often use Venmo where I am, and they save 3% in exchange for that awkward dance of sending payments.
But why do we need a 3rd party middle man fornwhat used to be a private transaction between two individuals? If the government is going to replace cash with technology, why can't it do it itself and not involve some trabsbational bohemoth like Visa or Mastercard?
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/fednow_about.h...
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#74Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…
And the next time there's a major network outage, whether because of incompetence (like the recent national outage in Canada), natural disaster, sabotage, or even war, access to all of those conveniences will be frozen solid. One won't be able to purchase so much as a stick of gum. James Burke, in the series Connections , warns of the "technology trap", where our dependence on various high-tech systems becomes so hea…
Merchant A might be unable to process while offline, while Merchant B next door will have no such issue.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
3% is not for electronic payment, 3% is for accepting credit card payment. Debit cards are much, much cheaper. And merchants are free to charge credit card payers an extra 3% or whatever they want to cover credit card costs. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/new-rules-el... > Beginning October 1, 2011, interchange fees for certain debit cards are capped at 21 cents plus 0.05% of the transaction value. h…
> 21 cents plus 0.05% This would seem to make it potentially quite expensive on small transactions? People use cards for the most trivial amounts here in Australia. Apparently the typical transaction fees are apparently 0.5% for debit and 0.9% for credit, which means that yeah, I just wave my phone to buy a donut...
This website has links to payment processors that show the different price for merchants with small dollar amount transactions:
https://www.cardpaymentoptions.com/credit-card-processing/de...
For banks not covered until the regulations that cap fee, the cost is only 1% + $0.04. But it seems the banks that are covered under the regulations are charging the max allowed, 0.05% + $0.21.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#76Framing the issue in terms of the "most vulnerable," ignores the effects of economic centralization on the majority. The current government is tremendously unpopular in a large segment of the population, and just this year it used our partial cashlessness to make the banks freeze the accounts of citizens who donated to an opposition activist cause that had constitutionally legitimate concerns. So much so that the government only avoided collapse from a loss of confidence by withdrawing its emergency powers legislation before it was about to be put down by our senate. It's polarized and getting bad fast.
Policies like cashlessness just consolidate economic division and the inevitable effect is a permanent underclass that starts in the grey markets using alternative means of exchange, and spreads to creating poverty traps and a parallel and inescapable underground economy that is more violent and exploitative as a result of its official isolation than anything we have today. Just look at any country with official exchange rates for their debased or controlled currencies, and consider what their economic upsides are.
Cashlessness is a policy of economic polarization, not inclusion. It has become hard to believe that creating an underclass isn't the explicit agenda of the policy influencers behind it, because the middle class prosperity that characterizes Canadian society means that the status conferred on technocrats is too little to mollify their status anxiety. I know these people. I have worked with them in government, media, and tech for decades. I grew up with them and know their alumni. I have sat at their brunch tables. The thing they seethe most over is independent business owners whose way of life comes from providing value and the actual approval of the people who buy their products, and patronize their businesses. It is the inconsolable envy toward those whose contributions are actually desired by the people they live with - and not imposed in some social engineering scheme for fabricated constituencies of "the most vulnerable" that always seem to put the same people at the centre managing them. What this class hates is the basic natural dignity of people that comes from humble, competent achievement, and not the affectations of prestige. As though their impostor syndrome were our fault, because nobody recognizes them as elite outside their own circles. We owe them no deference, and this is unforgivable.
I would say what has changed in Canada over the last decade is that I see that people really openly hate each other, but that's not the whole picture. It's that the people actuated by their own hatred have graduated into our institutions and do not see themselves as accountable to the values of the society they grew up identifying as a victim of. We didn't care about what the Laurentian Consensus and the media class thought because we believed with distance, diversity, and different communities, we could co-exist peacefully. What is clear now is that this was naive.
The argument about locking activists bank accounts was, "but they were extremists," but when you compare them to the actual arsonists, looters, rioters, shooters, and knife criminals motivated by more fashionably acceptable causes like creating religious and racial conflict, it's like our government and chattering classes just humiliate themselves by parroting absurdities and lies, and then take out their shame on Canadians with even more self righteousness. It's a cycle of abuse that is winding up with ever more momentum. When you see the government ministers speaking television, it's something darker than smug. There's a relish for the impunity these actors have that people recognize as fundamentally anti-Canadian.
Advocates of cashlessness problematize the freedom of others instead of producing things anyone wants, because it's just easier. My prediction is we have less than 5 years before this country descends into a constitutional crisis more serious than the referendum on Quebec's separation in the early 90s. This isn't about the tech. I feel like we have a narrowing opportunity to stop antagonizing citizens with policies and utterly disconnected articles like these.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#77Everybody who talks about how they never use cash and love the convenience of never having to use cash, they all sound just like all the people who loved Google just before their account was terminated for undisclosed reasons.
There's a ton of situations where someone should have their bank account closed. Watch a Kitboga video for an entertaining example.
This has lead to a class of people who are unable to have a bank account, in countries where almost everybody else does have a bank account.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the next time there's a major network outage, whether because of incompetence (like the recent national outage in Canada), natural disaster, sabotage, or even war, access to all of those conveniences will be frozen solid. One won't be able to purchase so much as a stick of gum. James Burke, in the series Connections , warns of the "technology trap", where our dependence on various high-tech systems becomes so hea…
newsflash: point of sales transactions can usually be processed offline, and settled at a later point in time. Merchant A might be unable to process while offline, while Merchant B next door will have no such issue.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#79According to the article, the main problem of a financial police state where you cannot so much as buy a loaf of bread without permission and surveillance from the payment system, is that not everyone is included.
If you give me the choice between being able to buy a loaf of bread and having my payments private I'm feeding myself ten times out of ten. I'm not saying that privacy isn't important but I don't think it is the main problem compared to people being unable to use currency.
Look, I switched to completely contactless payment through my phone since Covid, and it's so convenient I'm not going back. And it's hard for me to imagine people who don't have access to a bank account or smartphone, but those people do exist, and they may eventually become unable to buy a loaf of bread, and that's a problem.
Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?
#80This is an issue I have experience and strong opinions about, and please take the following as one sample of the sentiment that is brewing in this country over policies that impact cashlessness, privacy, autonomy, freedom of movement and association, and lately, of speech. I just happen to be close to these issues from a tech and policy perspective, and am an expert at articulating these things, but regretably, this…