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What is the cost of a cashless society?

thewalrus.ca

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Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#51

I think this is a good thing. It will prevent Terrorism, and keep us all from buying Porn, so no more onanism or Luciferian child abuse and cannibalism. Also will eliminate drugs.

This is probably the most naive comment in this thread. At that bar is set pretty high. Where there's a will there's a way...

Is this your first encounter with sarcasm?

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution of "let's just have smart and benevolent rulers" to the old "Who will guard the guards?" question doesn't have the greatest track record.

Does the need for constant vigilance suck? Yes. Is it necessary because humans will be humans? Also yes. If change is inevitable, as is turnover in governance and those who participate in it, than naturally systems and underlying mechanisms must be maintained to ensure stability. People problems demand people solutions. I know, it’s a bummer. No tech saved Kansas abortion rights earlier this week. Overwhelming consti…

The existence of cash demonstrates that there is a well functioning vigilance free payment system.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#53
post #29

Another thing to consider in that credit and debit card processing fees, which in the US are substantial, especially for small merchants that can't use large volume to negotiate a discount. This amounts to a ~3% hidden "tax" on all transactions, the bulk of which goes to one of four enormous corporations.

The US needs to get on top of this. Most other places I know of don't have the cashback cards because they limit the fees that can be charged. The flip side of this, of course, is that in places with limited fees it is now cheaper for the merchant to use a card than to deal in cash, as cash has to be counted, reconciled and banked, has security requirements for transport etc. In places like the UK and Australia, lots…

The US already caps debit card fees at near zero. There is no need to regulate credit cards fees.

Merchants are free to charge credit card users whatever extra fee they want.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#54
post #29

Another thing to consider in that credit and debit card processing fees, which in the US are substantial, especially for small merchants that can't use large volume to negotiate a discount. This amounts to a ~3% hidden "tax" on all transactions, the bulk of which goes to one of four enormous corporations.

The US needs to get on top of this. Most other places I know of don't have the cashback cards because they limit the fees that can be charged. The flip side of this, of course, is that in places with limited fees it is now cheaper for the merchant to use a card than to deal in cash, as cash has to be counted, reconciled and banked, has security requirements for transport etc. In places like the UK and Australia, lots…

This is a surprising point I never see raised, that cash has its own overhead costs, just that they're diffuse (training and paying employees to close and count the registers, hiring Garda trucks to transport cash) versus explicit (processor fees).

3% is presumably still far higher than cash's overhead, but the rate is so entrenched in the US that I wonder what it would take to get it dislodged.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#55
post #5
post #2

According to the article, the main problem of a financial police state where you cannot so much as buy a loaf of bread without permission and surveillance from the payment system, is that not everyone is included.

If you give me the choice between being able to buy a loaf of bread and having my payments private I'm feeding myself ten times out of ten. I'm not saying that privacy isn't important but I don't think it is the main problem compared to people being unable to use currency.

It’s insane to make it a choice though. Allow/require cash as an option, and all of these problems go away.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#57
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution of "let's just have smart and benevolent rulers" to the old "Who will guard the guards?" question doesn't have the greatest track record.

have a paper-scissors-rock style guard - the separation of powers and checks and balances. Institution1 holds regulatory powers, and institution2 is the guard/police for institution1. Then another institution3 guards institution2, and institution1 also has a responsibility to oversea institution3.

We're about to see a total breakdown of that threeway check and balance in the US as soon as the republicans take the executive branch again.

This system does not work. We need something better

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#58
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US needs to get on top of this. Most other places I know of don't have the cashback cards because they limit the fees that can be charged. The flip side of this, of course, is that in places with limited fees it is now cheaper for the merchant to use a card than to deal in cash, as cash has to be counted, reconciled and banked, has security requirements for transport etc. In places like the UK and Australia, lots…

This is a surprising point I never see raised, that cash has its own overhead costs, just that they're diffuse (training and paying employees to close and count the registers, hiring Garda trucks to transport cash) versus explicit (processor fees). 3% is presumably still far higher than cash's overhead, but the rate is so entrenched in the US that I wonder what it would take to get it dislodged.

3% is not for electronic payment, 3% is for accepting credit card payment. Debit cards are much, much cheaper. And merchants are free to charge credit card payers an extra 3% or whatever they want to cover credit card costs.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/new-rules-el...

> Beginning October 1, 2011, interchange fees for certain debit cards are capped at 21 cents plus 0.05% of the transaction value.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/regii-average-...

> In 2020, the average interchange fee per covered transaction was equal to $0.23. This value has not changed significantly since Regulation II took effect on October 1, 2011.

Hopefully, the upcoming FedNow system will make electronic payments effectively free.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/fednow_about.h...

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but you missed a crucial part -- the post says "pitchforks" but is made by a ninety-nine percent civilized person with manners and education, who is unlikely to actually do the physical act mentioned -- but in the modern day, will Very Likely remember this topic at voting time. Take-no-prisoners politics means that the losing candidate, really actually loses and is therefore out of a job right now. So these are high…

Out of autonomy, out of food. Out of a job, out of blood. Rising flood raises all ships. The stakes will get higher for all of us. Edit: Besides, the GP's got a slav sounding username. One would be wise not to assume civilization rates in excess of 75%. Strong slavs make bad times. Bad times make strong slavs.

Maybe more Russian sounding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
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