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What is the cost of a cashless society?

thewalrus.ca

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Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#11

Post by judge2020 »

JetAlone wrote: post #7

This morning, I had a very new looking 10,000 yen bill at the conbini auto-register that wouldn't go into the register. Looked at it, didn't seem to be folded or missing a corner, which often causes bill insertion into machines to fail. Tried again, wouldn't go in. Had to use another bill. If only we went cashless and installed the app, I wouldn't have to deal with bill and coin recognition failing anymore! What a wo…

Anecdotally Apple Pay on vending machines in the U.S. is amazing and I've only encountered one within the past few years that was erroring whenever you tried to tap, and any debit/credit transaction on that machine didn't work.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#12

Post by teddyh »

Everybody who talks about how they never use cash and love the convenience of never having to use cash, they all sound just like all the people who loved Google just before their account was terminated for undisclosed reasons.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#13

Post by leereeves »

kevincox wrote: post #5
AinderS wrote: post #2

According to the article, the main problem of a financial police state where you cannot so much as buy a loaf of bread without permission and surveillance from the payment system, is that not everyone is included.

If you give me the choice between being able to buy a loaf of bread and having my payments private I'm feeding myself ten times out of ten. I'm not saying that privacy isn't important but I don't think it is the main problem compared to people being unable to use currency.

That's not a real choice because governments will abuse it. If you don't have private, permissionless payments, you face the risk that the government will stop you from buying bread.

Don't believe it? Here are some other programs governments have abused: The US put people on the no fly list for refusing to become FBI informants [1]. Canada froze bank accounts of protestors. China abused their COVID tracking app to stop protests. [2]

It's important to remember past government abuses so we don't give them more tools for future abuses.

1: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-...

2: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/business/china-code-prote...

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#14

Post by mistrial9 »

JetAlone wrote: post #9
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give me the choice between a government that tries to force me to cede my autonomy and my privacy in order to buy a loaf of bread or go hungry, I'm sharpening my pitchfork and lighting my torch ten times out of ten.

Governments don't even have to get involved, we are heading in the direction fo functional cashlessness by the influence of corporations and the market alone. Hope you like incinerating fat cats to doom music, my friend.

but you missed a crucial part -- the post says "pitchforks" but is made by a ninety-nine percent civilized person with manners and education, who is unlikely to actually do the physical act mentioned -- but in the modern day, will Very Likely remember this topic at voting time. Take-no-prisoners politics means that the losing candidate, really actually loses and is therefore out of a job right now. So these are high stakes for political types and they do know it.

Sadly most American politicians on both sides of the aisle would probably vote for cashless right now, but, not all of them... and things do change.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#16

Post by mistrial9 »

seibelj wrote: post #3
AinderS wrote: post #2

According to the article, the main problem of a financial police state where you cannot so much as buy a loaf of bread without permission and surveillance from the payment system, is that not everyone is included.

Shoplift? No big deal. Have the theoretical potential to avoid even 1 penny in taxes? The only option is a financial panopticon that tracks the flow of all money!

defend and expand the taxation, fines and supervision -- bingo

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#17

Post by JetAlone »

mistrial9 wrote: post #14
JetAlone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments don't even have to get involved, we are heading in the direction fo functional cashlessness by the influence of corporations and the market alone. Hope you like incinerating fat cats to doom music, my friend.

but you missed a crucial part -- the post says "pitchforks" but is made by a ninety-nine percent civilized person with manners and education, who is unlikely to actually do the physical act mentioned -- but in the modern day, will Very Likely remember this topic at voting time. Take-no-prisoners politics means that the losing candidate, really actually loses and is therefore out of a job right now. So these are high…

Out of autonomy, out of food. Out of a job, out of blood.

Rising flood raises all ships. The stakes will get higher for all of us.

Edit: Besides, the GP's got a slav sounding username. One would be wise not to assume civilization rates in excess of 75%.

Strong slavs make bad times. Bad times make strong slavs.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#18

Post by ajsnigrutin »

AinderS wrote: post #2

According to the article, the main problem of a financial police state where you cannot so much as buy a loaf of bread without permission and surveillance from the payment system, is that not everyone is included.

If you want total financial control over people, you sure want it over the whole population, and not just those who already have too much to lose to actually protest or do something against the government.

Since the "two missed meals" that are between today and a revolution are most probable for the poor, skipping them would be bad for the overlords.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#20

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

teddyh wrote: post #12

Everybody who talks about how they never use cash and love the convenience of never having to use cash, they all sound just like all the people who loved Google just before their account was terminated for undisclosed reasons.

Banks can freeze your account for undisclosed reasons too so I'm not sure I see the point.
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