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Excel never dies (2021)

notboring.co

41–50 of 275 posts

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#41
post #6

As someone with a perhaps well deserved reputation as a Microsoft hater (ha, check my history..) Microsoft Excel is perhaps the greatest program-slash-programming language ever invented. Nothing has much come close in terms of giving regular folks the power of general-purpose computing (sadly, further and further removed from what we're doing today.)

Agree with this entirely. Excel is the most successful and most productive "low code" platform out there.

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#42
post #34

There are so many technologies Microsoft has tried to go all in on over the years...Internet Explorer, Edge, and .Net to name a few. Why they've never gone all in on the idea of Excel as a fundamental part of the operating system on top of which more sophisticated apps operate baffles me.

The language in Microsoft Power Apps is basically the formula language from Excel, with cell references (A1) replaced with properties (TextBox.Text) -- only thing I'm aware of that comes close though.

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#43
post #6

As someone with a perhaps well deserved reputation as a Microsoft hater (ha, check my history..) Microsoft Excel is perhaps the greatest program-slash-programming language ever invented. Nothing has much come close in terms of giving regular folks the power of general-purpose computing (sadly, further and further removed from what we're doing today.)

I feel like I'm stuck in a timeloop. I swear I've read almost this exact comment as the top comment of a different (monthly) "Hacker News debates Excel" thread

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#44

Is it Excel that never dies, or is it the concept of spreadsheets in general?

Hmm. Well there's been a spreadsheet program called Excel around for quite a while. But I guess like the rest of Microsoft's programs, it has been updated over time. Maybe this is a Ship of Theseus sort of thing.

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#45
post #6

As someone with a perhaps well deserved reputation as a Microsoft hater (ha, check my history..) Microsoft Excel is perhaps the greatest program-slash-programming language ever invented. Nothing has much come close in terms of giving regular folks the power of general-purpose computing (sadly, further and further removed from what we're doing today.)

Hypercard. The difference, of course, is that Excel wasn't abandoned by its owners like Hypercard was.

It's not a replacement per se, but tiddlywiki is the closest I have seen of a very flexible yet easy-to-use framework for people who have limited programming skills https://tiddlywiki.com/ There is a long list of tools built in tiddlywiki: https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does the job and it enables "regular folks" to solve business problems. This creates value. Most business problems don't require sophisticated IT systems. Sometimes I catch myself thinking about a sophisticated solution involving commercial software packages, databases, webservers, cloud services etc. and then I remember "If I bend the problem just a little bit it fits into an Excel table with a bit of VBA glue an…

Avoiding any custom software development and purchasing is the number one priority for small to medium businesses that want to survive if you ask me. I've seen a couple of them killed by software. At this point I'd rather work for a company that is held together with Excel than "domain specific enterprise software" having worked in that sector for years. Actually the most fun I ever had was being the "IT guy" as a se…

I've seen enough cases where the opposite is the case. Businesses running off Excel spreadsheets are often very inefficient, drowning in more problems than solutions and the day to day workflows for employees are awful. I'm not trying to say a small shop should go all in with Oracle or SAP, however a healthy investment in specialised software often pays off extremely well.

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#47
This piece is worth reading, especially if you have said ever heard anyone utter a statement along the lines of “Libre Office does everything but Microsoft office can do“. I use and regularly contribute to Libre Office and haven’t used Microsoft office for years, but I am under no illusion that the former can replace the ladder in any corporation over 10 people or so. There are millions of business processes depending on its exact behavior in ways you would never dream of, and until competitors can emulate that behavior exactly they simply don’t have a chance in government or a big business settings

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding any custom software development and purchasing is the number one priority for small to medium businesses that want to survive if you ask me. I've seen a couple of them killed by software. At this point I'd rather work for a company that is held together with Excel than "domain specific enterprise software" having worked in that sector for years. Actually the most fun I ever had was being the "IT guy" as a se…

I've seen enough cases where the opposite is the case. Businesses running off Excel spreadsheets are often very inefficient, drowning in more problems than solutions and the day to day workflows for employees are awful. I'm not trying to say a small shop should go all in with Oracle or SAP, however a healthy investment in specialised software often pays off extremely well.

Specialized software is a market for lemons. Most businesses running off Excel spreadsheets are ill-equipped to judge the vendors in question, and more often than not the net result is worse than the Excel mess.

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#49
post #6

As someone with a perhaps well deserved reputation as a Microsoft hater (ha, check my history..) Microsoft Excel is perhaps the greatest program-slash-programming language ever invented. Nothing has much come close in terms of giving regular folks the power of general-purpose computing (sadly, further and further removed from what we're doing today.)

> Microsoft Excel is perhaps the greatest program-slash-programming language ever invented

I would argue the opposite: it is the single most harmful piece of software ever invented. It allows people to reduce everything to numbers and then expect reality to match with the numbers in the spreadsheet without any regard for the actual human beings it affects.

It goes from “if we just change this number from 40 hrs/week to 50 hrs/week, we’ll make our deadline” all the way to “look, if we reduce the number or cancer treatments we authorize by X% then our profits go up by Y%”

Re: Excel never dies (2021)

#50
I recently sat down and built something more complicated than simple accounting in a spreadsheet. It's what I considered to be a pretty typical usecase for a non-math related sheet; taking in several tables of data and selectively joining them. You enter an ID, press a button, and it finds all of the data related to that ID and presents it to you.

I was horrified to find that even with the supporting scripting capabilities, the entire paradigm revolves around knowing the shape of your data in advance. (I was using Google Sheets, but I don't think Excel would have been much different). For example, it is very non-intuitive to write a formula that retrieves all the rows in another sheet that match this rule, and once you do that, since it's a variable number of rows returned, it is difficult to then operate on that data without filling your formulas down for some indeterminate number of rows.

I realize most people don't have the luxury or skills, but I quickly realized that I could spin up a whole CRUD webapp for this problem faster than I, someone who understands indexing and windowing and such, could build it in a spreadsheet.

After this experience, I can't help but wonder if Excel and spreadsheets largely exist due to pre-existing knowledge about how to use them, or if this is _actually_ the best way for non-programming minded people to solve these problems.

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