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A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

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Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#131
post #94
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really wish other cities followed suit. And I propose to extend this to a ban on all devices with noisy and smelly two-stroke engines: chainsaws, lawn mowers, motor scooters etc. The scooters may not be a problem in Washington, but anyone who has ever been to an Italian or Spanish city can probably relate...

Wanna ban stuff based on noise pollution? Fine, I'll give up my gas mower as long as I never have to hear some jerk on a motorcycle blast through my neighborhood ever again.

No argument here. However, note the motorcycle with the obnoxiously loud exhaust is most likely already illegal (subject to a fine), wherever you are. It's just not well enforced/enforceable.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#132
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really wish other cities followed suit. And I propose to extend this to a ban on all devices with noisy and smelly two-stroke engines: chainsaws, lawn mowers, motor scooters etc. The scooters may not be a problem in Washington, but anyone who has ever been to an Italian or Spanish city can probably relate...

I agree with the sentiment but pragmatically I think we have to time bans to when replacements are really equivalent or better-- electric mowers in particular are still 4x the cost and get mixed reviews, and I don't think chainsaw usage is a huge civic problem here in DC, but I don't live next to any big parks. Maybe we could also go with making new ones illegal to sell, though we'd have to coordinate with MD and VA…

Power washers used regularly on commercial property, too. As far as I can tell, the electric ones are every bit as effective and cost about the same amount. And anyone using a power washer is already trailing a hose around, too — a cable is not much of a hardship.

(Few things are quite as unpleasant as a crew using a stinky 2-stroke engine to do prolonged work on an otherwise nice plaza.)

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#133
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment but pragmatically I think we have to time bans to when replacements are really equivalent or better-- electric mowers in particular are still 4x the cost and get mixed reviews, and I don't think chainsaw usage is a huge civic problem here in DC, but I don't live next to any big parks. Maybe we could also go with making new ones illegal to sell, though we'd have to coordinate with MD and VA…

With scooters, of course you could argue that a two-stroke-engine scooter is still better than a car that emits more CO2 (and even more if it's stuck in traffic or searching for a parking spot in some European city center). But electric scooters are definitely competitive and noise-free - of course more expensive, but still affordable, at least for an average European income.

2-strokes are actually pretty astoundingly awful for pollution and air quality. They emit so much that when running a leafblower and an F-150 Raptor the same amount of time, the leafblower will emit orders of magnitude more pollutants, save for CO2 specifically. pretty much any vehicle on the road is emitting less hydrocarbons per-mile than a two-stroke.

Obviously CO2 is a problem for global warming, but I definitely don't think its worth the air pollution trade-offs of a two stroke in a crowded city, especially when 4-stroke alternatives exist and are better in almost every way.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-...

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For a homeowner, a 2 or 4 stroke gas engine has no compelling benefit these days over a cordless electric string trimmer Cost. I would have gone electric if I could but seeing as I don't obsess over my lawn (i.e. I let it grow out enough before cutting it back that most HNers would be hand wringing if I were their neighbor) there's no amount of mental gymnastics that makes it a sane tradeoff. I'm not gonna double th…

Do y'all not have corded electric mowers in America? Here in the UK, an entry-level petrol mower is £150+ while an entry-level corded electric mower is only £50. They're also much lighter, which is great for ladies and kids. And they start really reliably, even if they've sat in a shed all winter.

Corded electric mowers are very rare in the USA. I live in a suburban neighborhood in the North East and have never seen one in my life. I see some battery powered ones though.

I wonder if it’s due to our outlets being 120V? We’d be limited to less than 2.5 HP with a normal outlet, whereas gas push mowers typically have engines in the 5-7 HP range.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#136
post #4

Outlaw as the author calls them “groomed lawns”. They’re a waste of time, energy and resources that could all be going towards something productive.

It's immoral to impose your opinions on what is and is not productive on what other people do with their land and money, even if those opinions are correct.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#137
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment but pragmatically I think we have to time bans to when replacements are really equivalent or better-- electric mowers in particular are still 4x the cost and get mixed reviews, and I don't think chainsaw usage is a huge civic problem here in DC, but I don't live next to any big parks. Maybe we could also go with making new ones illegal to sell, though we'd have to coordinate with MD and VA…

Power washers used regularly on commercial property, too. As far as I can tell, the electric ones are every bit as effective and cost about the same amount. And anyone using a power washer is already trailing a hose around, too — a cable is not much of a hardship. (Few things are quite as unpleasant as a crew using a stinky 2-stroke engine to do prolonged work on an otherwise nice plaza.)

> the electric ones are every bit as effective and cost about the same amount.

Electric ones are 2000psi and corded (no major battery ones).

Gas are 3200 psi and have no cord.

Probably better to work on emission controls and better engines than to ban things with no gas equivalents.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#138
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They cut right through safety chaps, no problem Ouch! I assume that's a combination between the higher torque of an electric motor and shoddy low cost Chinese engineering?

Gasoline engines struggle to produce torque at very low RPM's, so once they begin choking on the fibers in the chaps, they lose momentum and stop. Electric motors on the other hand produce peak torque at 0 RPM, so it's way harder to bring them to a standstill. Many of these electric chainsaws are premium brands and still have this problem- to my knowledge there are no electric chainsaws that have a safety feature des…

The explanation as I've heard it is that ICE's deliver pulsed power. At peak power in the engine cycle it cuts chaps easy but when the output dips it chokes on the fibers.

Electric saws deliver uniform power and don't have this quirk.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#139
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting - At least in my area most of the gas weed eaters available for sale are now 4-stroke. Wonder which will end up being more prevalent.

For a homeowner, a 2 or 4 stroke gas engine has no compelling benefit these days over a cordless electric string trimmer. The price of the electrics seems to be low enough now and carry enough energy to handle pretty much any single family home. But for a lawn care crew who may cut 20+ lawns a day, they will need a heck of a battery solution for string trimmers or leaf blowers, either in terms of battery capacity or…

Personally - I think electric is still a fews years off being usable for yard equipment.

I live in a metro, but my property is about an acre. I bought an electric lawnmower/weed eater when I bought the house. I used them for a year, then donated them and bought gas (4 stroke for both).

The problems I encountered: Batteries are expensive and they just don't last nearly long enough (both charge and life). To do a real pass on my yard without waiting for a charge cycle, I would have needed about 4 batteries for the trimmer, and 8 for the mower. I do live in a heavily wooded area with a large number of vines (and kudzu...) but still - that's nearly 1000 dollars in batteries alone. I opted to wait, and stick with 4, but it means what was previously 4 hours in the yard is now 4 hours split into several sections - an all day affair.

Even with the above, I would have probably stuck with the trimmer (the mower was just garbage), except I had two batteries fail in the first year. That's just an unacceptable extra cost for yard work, and FAR eclipses the entire amount I've spent on gas for the mower/trimmer combined over the last 3 years I've had them.

So... No. Frankly I don't think they're there yet. It's very close, but it's slower, and frankly - outrageously more expensive.

So I'm going to wait for cost to come down, and regulation to address battery interoperability in this equipment (hah... as if our government would actually do something useful).

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#140

One thing that really pissed me off living in Los Angeles was the fact that leaf-blowers were technically "banned" but there was zero enforcement. Leaf-blowers are literally everywhere and at all times of the day. The noise pollution is just ridiculous. Especially offensive when I would watch a gardener using them in the street blowing cuttings into a, progressively, smaller and smaller pile, all so he could scoop th…

> lazy man's broom.

Or time efficient man.

Lazy is a really good motivator. This is like saying automating a work form is bad because automation is just a “lazy man’s paper form.”

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