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How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

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Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#31

Funny there's no mention of ML without a PHD. Anyone done that?

I'm a Data Scientist who builds ML models. My bachelor's is in psychology, I just studied and learned how these algorithms work.

It will be interesting if you can share how you landed in your first ML job, once you learnt the algorithms. I think getting the first job in ML role, if you don't have formal qualification in the related field is the hard part.

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#32
post #24

I moved to a Machine Learning Engineer role a few years back. I just did an internal transfer to a ML team with no previous knowledge. The team trusted me to pick up whatever I needed on the job. Now I interview tons of people for MLE roles. Trying to get in "through the front door" is incredibly competitive. Not only you have to prove you are a great engineer, but also good ML knowledge. You'd be competing with peop…

Are these academic types great engineers? Do you find that the academics have a major edge in domain knowledge over self taught programmer?

Usually you can tell people who are purely academic. They excel at domain knowledge but are almost naive about building real world systems. They might come in as juniors. I don't think we would loop anyone as mid level or above unless they have experience delivering working systems in production.

Personally I don't mind the candidate's background so far as they can do the job (how the interview is a sucky way to determine this is another topic of conversation).

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#34

Funny there's no mention of ML without a PHD. Anyone done that?

I got a job as a junior ml dev at Coveo's R&D (through HackerNews no less) with an MSc in Experimental Medicine (BSc in Biochem before that). I was sure they'd never take me but they did. I think the main reason I got hired was that I did really well on their interview take-home test. I had a great time their but ironically, I left to start a PhD in deep learning as applied to biology so that I can strengthen my theoretical skills. No regrets, but I'm sure I'd have been able to grow at Coveo without the PhD.

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#35
post #27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to do backend development next, I find it much more interesting (and more rewarding to work on based on the things I've done).

This is literally opposite of me. Would you mind elaborating a bit on the negatives of working on the ML side of things? Definitely not saying your wrong or that it's better than backend dev (it's probably just personal preference). But as someone considering it, I'd like to hear the good and bad of each type of role.

I too moved away from ML after actively pursuing it for many years. YMMV but here are my reasons

- Scientists dont always make the best 'clients'. The requirements you spend months implementing may be completely obsolete by the time you are done and then completely unused. - You often dont understand or are made aware of the impact of your work. - Its challenging to compete with Masters/Phd graduates who have spent years delving into ML. Entry-level knowledge only takes you so far. So its more likely that you wont work on cutting edge ML research. - MLE work in my experience has been mostly around infrastructure management and data security. Again it has interesting challenges and hard problems to solve but with the speed of the AI world, it all boils down to facilitating the scientists and researchers as much as you can

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#36

I moved to a Machine Learning Engineer role a few years back. I just did an internal transfer to a ML team with no previous knowledge. The team trusted me to pick up whatever I needed on the job. Now I interview tons of people for MLE roles. Trying to get in "through the front door" is incredibly competitive. Not only you have to prove you are a great engineer, but also good ML knowledge. You'd be competing with peop…

As a Machine Learning Engineer what tools do you use on a regular basis?

Spark in Scala, Pytorch, Docker, bunch of infra... We run in AWS and have a ton of proprietary tools.

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#37

I moved to a Machine Learning Engineer role a few years back. I just did an internal transfer to a ML team with no previous knowledge. The team trusted me to pick up whatever I needed on the job. Now I interview tons of people for MLE roles. Trying to get in "through the front door" is incredibly competitive. Not only you have to prove you are a great engineer, but also good ML knowledge. You'd be competing with peop…

Personally the path of becoming an excellent engineer is the best path (possibly hardest) to take on any situation, precisely because of the versatility in scenarios like this. I'm by no means an excellent engineer, but I like to plan and approach opportunities thinking someday I'll be one.

Starting the path is also age restricted. I've had some friends ask how they can switch into the industry by asking what languages they should learn. It's a hard pill for them to swallow, that they're better off becoming good at programming and great at IT, rather than trying to start from scratch after 30.

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#39
Do you really want to, or do you just want lots of money?

ML jobs are split into theoretical and practical.

Theoretical involves building proprietary models based on academic papers, and training them. This is where the PhDs are going.

Practical involves deploying ML models, either in the cloud or on devices. This doesn't require the heavy theory that is still rather new in university, it is more about application programming.

The theoretical jobs pay a lot more, the practical jobs just require a cursory knowledge of ML, and not the nuts and bolts. The latter requires a lot more patience to understand the explosion of inference hardware (esp. Nvidia's convoluted tooling).

Theory: can't unless you have a phd.

Practical: learn python and tensorflow, C++, and devops.

Re: How do you break into a career in machine learning? (2020)

#40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a PhD for DS/ML Engineer. Even at FAANG, even in their research labs. Usually a PhD is only in the requirements for Research Scientist (RS). That said, I did a PhD (and am now a RS). It's a fantastic opportunity to learn fully focused during a few years. But if your sole objective is the career (which is ok!), don't do a PhD. There are much easier ways to break into ML industry.

To add to this, companies at Google-scale tend to have a huge variety of ML related jobs, ranging from low level things like optimising libraries for different hardware, to the more general research positions where people are working on their own pet projects. Plus everything in between - data management and curation for training models that get used in production, people who try and figure out how to productionise c…

I;'d like to echo this. I learned a long time ago that I don't want to be a "machine learning engineer"- I have no interest in designing new networks, feature selection, or training as a daily job. I know how to do all those things but it's not somethign I pursued at Google. Instead, I found jobs where I could work with those people (often the ones doing the real state of the art research at scale) using my experience, in ML, data engineering, pipelines, and HPC.

There is nothing quite like having a world-class researcher ask you to figure out why their model is exploding, and tracking down the crazy things that happen on TPUs when their math isn't absolutely perfect, then helping them fix it, and see them publish their results (or put them in prod). Or knowing enough software and hardware to debug a tensorflow TPU problem with an oscilloscope connected to the voltage regulator in a hardware lab.

Personally, i gained these skills over a long period starting in the mid-90s (working on machiine learning, and then later HPC for biology, and ultimately back to machine learning). But I am a slow learner. probably the shortest path is to get accepted to a major university and do really well in your ML and CS classes, then parlay that into a job in a FAAMG, then figure out what you want to do with all your skillz.

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