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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#221

Post by czstar »

bradfa wrote: post #135
zachshefska wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is SO inefficient. While you’re right in describing the principles of supply and demand, the reality is that buying a car should be 10x simpler and the price should just be the price. No games, no haggling, no BS add-ons that increase dealer profits. Retail auto is due for a wake up call, and I sense it’s happening right now. You wouldn’t need markups to make extra profit if the cost infrastructure associa…

Tesla is leading the way today (somewhat painfully in some areas) but they're not the first to try fixing this. GM's Saturn tried to make buying simpler in the 1990s and surely there were other previous examples, too. Ford seems to be testing the waters about how to simplify the car purchase process: https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-s... There's plenty of dealerships who have historically ha…

Tesla has increased prices a lot. What’s the difference to the consumer if the increase comes from the manufacturer or a dealership? Tesla also is known for delaying vehicle deliveries if you don’t pay extra for FSD. Tesla just appears to be better than a dealership but they engage in the same shenanigans.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#222

Post by ghaff »

smeej wrote: post #117

It's not just the new cars. On Saturday, my friend traded in his 2017 GMC Canyon with 86k miles on it for $19k. He had paid $25k for it new in 2017. The dealership now has it listed for used sale for $28,995. If they're turning a $10k profit on a 5yo car driven pretty hard for 5 years and selling it above what it cost when it was new, I have no doubt they're marking up the new ones even higher!

Yeah, the one silver lining of the crunch. When I just bought a new car, I traded in a 2011 Toyota 4Runner with 75K miles and a caved in rear hatch and some non-obvious mechanical problems. Got $15K for it. Was really shocked. Sort of made up for the fact that I pretty much paid sticker plus a couple add-ons.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#223

Post by robertlagrant »

mox1 wrote: post #166
sleepdreamy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When…

But you still bought the car!!! That's the entire point of these crappy business practices. At the end of the day, you paid. Thus they continue doing the same thing. If you really wanted this to change, don't reward the bad business practices. (Side note: This is a common topic on reddit /askcarsales. Honest dealers are basically forced to do some of these things. The shady dealers advertise lower prices, but lots of…

> That's the entire point of these crappy business practices

Exactly. They're trying to find the maximum you'll pay. It's like when you click on "Enterprise" plan on a SAAS company - time for a sales rep to Google your company, see the nice share price and give you a "custom" quote.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#224

Post by jonahhorowitz »

zachshefska wrote: post #85
Gh0stRAT wrote: post #48

Hey @TreyGuy (or others from Markup.org) How do you account for dealers which sell for $0 above MSRP but then include a non-negotiable $700 "paint protection" service? As a crowdsourced site, you'll get a ton of reports that a particular dealership has no markup and few if any reports from people who have actually been far enough into the purchase process to discover these hidden markups.

Great point (I’m the Zach Shefska referenced in the article), and have been working in this space to advocate for consumers. Two things: 1) new FTC proposed rules (which are open for public comment!) would ban the practice of “surprise” add-ons at the dealership. 2) a lot of folks that contribute to markups (and other crowdsourced initiatives) go all the way to getting a buyers order and then report those add-ons whe…

The FTC (or congress) should mandate this for everything. The price for something should be the final, out the door price. It's amazing to travel in the UK and buy something at the supermarket. If it says ￡1, then that's the cost at the register.

Right now in the US, there's resort fees, booking fees, regulatory compliance fees, and on and on that all get added during checkout. It's so deceptive.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#225

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #114
lelanthran wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have a theory many charge this if you're from out of town and won't be paying them later for maintenance services. How do they know you're from out of town when they give you the quote? Do they refuse to quote without a valid and verified address? After all, can't you just give them a local address when asking for the quote?

That might get tricky if they use your fake address in later pieces of paperwork.

[deleted]

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#226

Post by grouchomarx »

jollyllama wrote: post #181
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

This works fine for unfinanced products, but when financing enters the picture, it becomes a "who is the most willing to take on debt" contest. People who can't think ahead win these, the prices are driven up for everyone else, and nobody has a good time in the long term.

fantastic point.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#227

Post by jagged-chisel »

mzs wrote: post #185
lelanthran wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have a theory many charge this if you're from out of town and won't be paying them later for maintenance services. How do they know you're from out of town when they give you the quote? Do they refuse to quote without a valid and verified address? After all, can't you just give them a local address when asking for the quote?

Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership.

Maybe for a test drive

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#228

Post by robotnikman »

Loughla wrote: post #188
brycewray wrote: post #165

Bought my latest vehicle just before COVID lockdown (i.e., before I had a clue that my commuting days were over) and, thus, also well before Supply Chain Meltdown. Have rued that purchase ever since on the theory of "Geez, it turned out that I really didn't need this vehicle so badly"; but, after seeing these developments and remembering that I was able to get the price down a few thousand from MSRP, I'm thinking I m…

We bought our most recent new car in February of 2020, RIGHT before the whole world blew up. We have gotten calls from the dealer offering us up to 10k over what we originally paid for the car since then, even with the mileage we've put on. Absolutely amazing, the world we live in.

Same with my car, which I just got a few months before covid started. The dealership is basically offering to buy it back for the price I paid for it.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#229

Post by hellojesus »

n4r9 wrote: post #180
ReptileMan wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then manufacturers will increase supply and prices will go down. I am fairly open to the argument that price gouging for necessities in times of sudden life threatening crunch is not ok, but car market is operating like a normal market.

Except that, in this case, chip shortages and a supply-chain crisis mean that supply won't increase.

Then the market is acting rationally and allocating limited goods to the highest bidder. Prices would go down if the population stopped purchasing at the given prices. But all it takes is one person to buy at a price just above yours to keep you out of the market.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#230

Post by hellojesus »

UncleMeat wrote: post #207
ReptileMan wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then manufacturers will increase supply and prices will go down. I am fairly open to the argument that price gouging for necessities in times of sudden life threatening crunch is not ok, but car market is operating like a normal market.

> And then manufacturers will increase supply and prices will go down. Will they? It seems like scarcity pricing is becoming a more and more common strategy.

This would then leave room open for competitors to move in and price lower to move more units. Ultimately things are set to MR = MC in the long run.
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