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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

themanual.com

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#121

Post by jeromegv »

atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low.

However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#122

Post by robertlagrant »

thrown_22 wrote: post #82
kenniskrag wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why?

No business wants to sell to consumers, they are irrational and a huge liability. Much better to have some poor schmuck deal with that and be universally hated.

But why do they need regulations to do that? Can't they just... not sell to consumers?

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#123

Post by nataz »

zachshefska wrote: post #85
Gh0stRAT wrote: post #48

Hey @TreyGuy (or others from Markup.org) How do you account for dealers which sell for $0 above MSRP but then include a non-negotiable $700 "paint protection" service? As a crowdsourced site, you'll get a ton of reports that a particular dealership has no markup and few if any reports from people who have actually been far enough into the purchase process to discover these hidden markups.

Great point (I’m the Zach Shefska referenced in the article), and have been working in this space to advocate for consumers. Two things: 1) new FTC proposed rules (which are open for public comment!) would ban the practice of “surprise” add-ons at the dealership. 2) a lot of folks that contribute to markups (and other crowdsourced initiatives) go all the way to getting a buyers order and then report those add-ons whe…

Hey, cool to see you post on HN. I started following you and your dad on YouTube during the pandemic.

It's been fascinating how you've (very intentionally) built your online following. Between social media vectors, the website, forums, paid tier access, pricing tools, and now insurance, you have quite the operation.

Other folks on HN should take notes on what you've accomplished so far.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#124

Post by zachshefska »

atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

The market is SO inefficient. While you’re right in describing the principles of supply and demand, the reality is that buying a car should be 10x simpler and the price should just be the price. No games, no haggling, no BS add-ons that increase dealer profits. Retail auto is due for a wake up call, and I sense it’s happening right now. You wouldn’t need markups to make extra profit if the cost infrastructure associated with selling cars was lower than it currently is.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#125

Post by n4r9 »

ReptileMan wrote: post #116
n4r9 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're a business after all. I'd argue that using this phrase to write off wider ethical concerns is one of the key issues here.

How raising pricies is unethical? We are talking about somewhat luxury goods here - new cars.

People who can no longer buy the new car will instead buy a lower priced car, encouraging an upward trend in general car prices.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#126

Post by Rastonbury »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #120

The (original) headline says "nonprofit", but this isn't mentioned in the text, which does say "take the plunge to form an LLC in November/December". Is it actually a nonprofit? Or... what does that mean, in this case? Curious to hear more about the business structure with regard to this if anyone knows.

It also has ads that ublock didn't catch

Edit: Creator commented in here that it's a for-profit LLC and the title is wrong

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#127

Post by O__________O »

Do dealers all pay the same price for a given make/model/year regardless of volume?

If not, while I get consumers only care about markup over MSRP, it’s likely dealers are not all paying the same price wholesale.

As such, if data like this becomes the norm, likely lead to small dealers who pay more wholesale going out of business — which long-term would likely be worse for consumers; to be clear, not saying that selling the markup data wrong, but it’s likely to impact the market in ways that may ultimately be a net negative.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#128

Post by TreyGuy »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #120

The (original) headline says "nonprofit", but this isn't mentioned in the text, which does say "take the plunge to form an LLC in November/December". Is it actually a nonprofit? Or... what does that mean, in this case? Curious to hear more about the business structure with regard to this if anyone knows.

its an error on the writers part. we are a "for profit" LLC

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#129

Post by TreyGuy »

autoexec wrote: post #65
gkanai wrote: post #35

If this downturn really deepens into a true recession (however it is defined) won't new vehicle markups go away naturally as fewer customers will be buying new cars? Isn't Markups a business that only is relevant during an inflated economy?

You'll mostly get the data during a an inflated economy, but it's still good to know which companies are screwing you over so that you can take your business to someone who didn't when the economy settles back down. I doubt losing my business will cause anyone willing to price gouge to change their practices, but who knows what other evil things that kind of company will do to exploit you so I'll feel even better sup…

there will be the need to track "below" msrp which will be great just to find the best priced dealers around a given area.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#130

Post by zachshefska »

nataz wrote: post #123
zachshefska wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point (I’m the Zach Shefska referenced in the article), and have been working in this space to advocate for consumers. Two things: 1) new FTC proposed rules (which are open for public comment!) would ban the practice of “surprise” add-ons at the dealership. 2) a lot of folks that contribute to markups (and other crowdsourced initiatives) go all the way to getting a buyers order and then report those add-ons whe…

Hey, cool to see you post on HN. I started following you and your dad on YouTube during the pandemic. It's been fascinating how you've (very intentionally) built your online following. Between social media vectors, the website, forums, paid tier access, pricing tools, and now insurance, you have quite the operation. Other folks on HN should take notes on what you've accomplished so far.

Thank you for the kind words. We have so much more work to do! Trying to innovate in this industry is TOUGH. All of the incumbent business models are predicated on information asymmetry. We're having fun changing the way things work and sliding the scale in the consumers favor.
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