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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

themanual.com

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#101

Post by TreyGuy »

Gh0stRAT wrote: post #48

Hey @TreyGuy (or others from Markup.org) How do you account for dealers which sell for $0 above MSRP but then include a non-negotiable $700 "paint protection" service? As a crowdsourced site, you'll get a ton of reports that a particular dealership has no markup and few if any reports from people who have actually been far enough into the purchase process to discover these hidden markups.

Thanks for commenting @gh0strat.

Right now we are currently accounting for both markup and mandatory add-ons as a total in the same numerical value. If it's 0 markup but $2995 for N2 filled tires then the total markup is $2995.

We are finding the opposite to be true. Most of our posters are folks that have actually spent at least a little time dealing with a dealership and are reporting the numbers back to us. Our hope is that as we get more postings the false or innacurate postings will be drowned out by the accurate quality ones.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#102

Post by TreyGuy »

zachshefska wrote: post #85
Gh0stRAT wrote: post #48

Hey @TreyGuy (or others from Markup.org) How do you account for dealers which sell for $0 above MSRP but then include a non-negotiable $700 "paint protection" service? As a crowdsourced site, you'll get a ton of reports that a particular dealership has no markup and few if any reports from people who have actually been far enough into the purchase process to discover these hidden markups.

Great point (I’m the Zach Shefska referenced in the article), and have been working in this space to advocate for consumers. Two things: 1) new FTC proposed rules (which are open for public comment!) would ban the practice of “surprise” add-ons at the dealership. 2) a lot of folks that contribute to markups (and other crowdsourced initiatives) go all the way to getting a buyers order and then report those add-ons whe…

Thanks Zach!

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#103

Post by TreyGuy »

Gh0stRAT wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is "non-negotiable" in business. Just say "no".

That's exactly what I did. I had my checkbook and was there to put in a deposit when I found out. Here's an abridged version of how the conversation went: > Me: I don't want that and won't be paying for it. > Them: Well we do it for all new cars and you can't have us not do it. > Me: Well then you can either eat the cost of this unnecessary "service" or sell me the car for $700 under MSRP to make up for it. > Them: S…

A tale as old as car sales

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#104

Post by technothrasher »

Gh0stRAT wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is "non-negotiable" in business. Just say "no".

That's exactly what I did. I had my checkbook and was there to put in a deposit when I found out. Here's an abridged version of how the conversation went: > Me: I don't want that and won't be paying for it. > Them: Well we do it for all new cars and you can't have us not do it. > Me: Well then you can either eat the cost of this unnecessary "service" or sell me the car for $700 under MSRP to make up for it. > Them: S…

> Meanwhile, I'm working with a different dealership now.

Hopefully that goes well for you. When I recently got a new car, I called around to all the local dealerships before I found one that would order me a car at MSRP. But I knew I wasn't done with the BS. It took seven months for the car to come in, and they didn't add any cash markups, but they did give me a money factor for the lease that was really high. I could have walked, but then I'd be waiting another seven months or so and would be paying above MSRP and probably still get a marked up money factor. I really had no leverage.

More annoying than that, though, was that when I asked them about the high money factor, the finance guy just straight up lied right to my face that they didn't mark it up. What I'd heard on the internet was wrong. What the other dealers told me was wrong. The whole world was wrong. Why? Why would he lie to me like that? It served no purpose, because I couldn't really do anything about it anyway. It's like it was compulsive with him or something.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#105

Post by namdnay »

capableweb wrote: post #97
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

Well yeah, if you want as much money for the car as possible, then you'd do it like that. Personally when I sell stuff second-hand (which tends to be cars, computers, instruments and various accessories), I sell it to whoever is first and closest, in that order.

Sure, Because it’s not your core business

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#106

Post by newsclues »

atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

It’s fine until you have an artificially limited number of essential goods (food and water, housing, etc).

Then it’s bullshit that will lead to violence.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#107

Post by 1123581321 »

Gh0stRAT wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is "non-negotiable" in business. Just say "no".

That's exactly what I did. I had my checkbook and was there to put in a deposit when I found out. Here's an abridged version of how the conversation went: > Me: I don't want that and won't be paying for it. > Them: Well we do it for all new cars and you can't have us not do it. > Me: Well then you can either eat the cost of this unnecessary "service" or sell me the car for $700 under MSRP to make up for it. > Them: S…

You didn’t win this either.

The last time I bought a (used) car from a dealership, I walked out, and they caught me as I was walking out the lobby and dropped the add-on, and then another add-on after some arguing since they knew I’d leave. That was successful.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#108

Post by n4r9 »

atestu wrote: post #98
capableweb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, if you want as much money for the car as possible, then you'd do it like that. Personally when I sell stuff second-hand (which tends to be cars, computers, instruments and various accessories), I sell it to whoever is first and closest, in that order.

Right. And I don't think we should fault dealers for wanting to make as much money as possible. They're a business after all. I usually do the same when I sell stuff second-hand because my priority is getting rid of it as fast as possible, not to make the most money. Since dealers have very limited inventories these days, they should take more time to get a better price.

> They're a business after all.

I'd argue that using this phrase to write off wider ethical concerns is one of the key issues here.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#110

Post by badpun »

capableweb wrote: post #97
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

Well yeah, if you want as much money for the car as possible, then you'd do it like that. Personally when I sell stuff second-hand (which tends to be cars, computers, instruments and various accessories), I sell it to whoever is first and closest, in that order.

Then all the cars will be bought by scalpers and resold for much more, just as it happened with GPUs.
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