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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#51

Post by klabb3 »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #3

Not for nothing, and this is a cool use of technology and the internet, but was I supposed to be under the impression that car dealers aren't greedy? Greed is the central axis around which capitalist economic activity is oriented. It works very, very well. I'll take greed over feigned compassion and breadlines any day of the week. Recently I bought a Toyota SUV for a $7000 markup. But I was able to sell my lease (whi…

> Greed is the central axis around which capitalist economic activity is oriented.

It's hyperbolic, but yeah self-interest is a pretty good approximation for behavior of all living organisms. Powerful natural forces like self-interest should be utilized to produce a good outcome, but they don't guarantee a good outcome just by being powerful. Jealousy and hate are powerful forces too.

For capitalism to work, many supporting structures are required. One is information symmetry. If you have to drive 10h and speak with a sales rep for 1h before you learn the price, you don't have a free market. Aside from this being deceitful and false advertising, it introduces economic inefficiencies in the most basic sense. All efforts that bring transparency are to be saluted.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#52

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

judge2020 wrote: post #7
xanaxagoras wrote: post #3

Not for nothing, and this is a cool use of technology and the internet, but was I supposed to be under the impression that car dealers aren't greedy? Greed is the central axis around which capitalist economic activity is oriented. It works very, very well. I'll take greed over feigned compassion and breadlines any day of the week. Recently I bought a Toyota SUV for a $7000 markup. But I was able to sell my lease (whi…

I think the point is that the recent rise of manufacturer-direct sales is better - it tends to be a much more enjoyable experience, it allows you to avoid any sort of negotiations for a price (ie. you pay the price you see on the order page), and you get to spec out your exact car configuration instead of settling for whatever's on the lot. Now, dealership laws in many states forbid the automaker from selling their c…

i got quotes online and then went to the dealership to pick up my car. no negotiation. i just didn't respond to any of the buggers that didn't give me a quote in the first email.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#53

Post by kenniskrag »

ramraj07 wrote: post #47
Panzer04 wrote: post #45

TBH, the only real issue I have with this is dealers capturing all the markup - this is happening because paying those prices gets you a new car now , and not in 12mo when the supply shortage is relieved. I'm not exactly sure how these things work, but if the manufacturer is forbidden from selling direct and dodging the dealer, that's a problem. If the manufacturer could, but is choosing not to, well, that's on them…

Most states in the US have laws banning the direct sale of cars without dealers.

why?

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#55

Post by paranoidrobot »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #8

As if car buyers are any different. They would not take anything less than the highest offer for selling their used car, just like the dealerships. Is a dealership wanting to sell for the highest price any different than a labor seller wanting to sell for the highest salary?

I think a lot of the objection is that dealers don't make it clear what they're actually selling the thing for.

I've heard of plenty of cases (so yeah, anecdata) where a dealer might advertise the car at MSRP, but it's not until you get in there, and actually try to buy it that they reveal they won't actually sell it for MSRP - there's "market adjustments", and mandatory addons and other things.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#58

Post by kart23 »

judge2020 wrote: post #25
kart23 wrote: post #20

carmax has been doing this with teslas. visited a carmax lot and saw around 10 model 3s, identical specs, with less than 50 miles (the 1k miles is the lowest the site will show) and selling them for 10k markup. they’re literally scalping teslas now, not to mention the rest of their overpriced inventory. https://www.carmax.com/cars/preview/23029935

I doubt CarMax is actually placing orders, but I wouldn’t be surprised if CarMax is the first place anyone goes to scalp their own new model 3 and CarMax is happy to add an extra 5k to profit on their sale.

Possible, but unlikely. The sales tax+registration you'd be paying would be a lot on a new car, around $4000. I believe Carmax doesn't have to pay sales tax or registration on a new car because they're a dealer.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#59

Post by kart23 »

tptacek wrote: post #34
TreyGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh jeez, ya I know CarMax is bad. We dont really have a clean way of reporting teslas or scalping of resold vehicles by 3rd parties like that right now at markups.org

I wouldn't buy a Tesla from Carmax (I wouldn't buy a Tesla from anyone), but for everything else, it's pretty great. I bought my last car from them online at an extremely sane price, and they delivered it to my door; a few weeks later a better trim of the same car popped up on their site (many hours away), and I was able to exchange without any drama. I got pretty decent at car buying from dealerships over the years,…

if ya find a decent price, go for it. The convenience is worth it. Personally I found the cars I was interested in (mostly sports cars) to be incredibly overpriced. I've heard their warranty is good too.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#60

Post by spoonjim »

kenniskrag wrote: post #53
ramraj07 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most states in the US have laws banning the direct sale of cars without dealers.

why?

The auto manufacturers themselves lobbied for these laws ~100 years ago. Cars were very new and they wanted to encourage the construction of single-brand dealerships all over the country. They knew that local businessmen would not invest in dealerships if they could have the rug pulled out from them so they lobbied for much of the legal framework that governs franchisor-franchisee operations today.
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