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The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

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Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#141

Post by m4jor »

14 wrote: post #45
NickC25 wrote: post #5

There was an NYT article not too long ago whose entire point is that "true" psychedelic drugs are too dangerous to go mainstream, but isolated chemical compounds that provide some of the chemical effects of LSD / Mushrooms / Ketamine without the "trip" were a much better way to go. The reasoning was that they could engineer a way to chemically induce neuroplastic change in the brain without the liability of visual or…

Where does one buy LSD this day and age. Doesn’t seem very popular in my neck of the woods and have not heard anyone having it since I was in high school 20 years ago.

Its still around and extremely common.

I would suggest you learn how to use Tor and surf to some of the many dark net marketplaces that are around.

You can buy an entire sheet of LSD blotter for like $220 atm.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#142

Post by yababa_y »

joshuajill wrote: post #115
yababa_y wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have been done! Here is the latest one, for psilocybin. The mystical experiences are deeply related to therapeutic outcome https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2022.8416... Here is the first one I am aware of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050654/ . So 14 years of evidence backing up this claim.

These mystical experiences are part of the outcome, not an environmental variable. There maybe anecdotal or some other kind of evidence in the sense of what the effect of the supporting environment is on the long term.

this thread is all about the “trip” ie the mystical experience aspect, that presumably the “plasticity-specific” novel psychedeloids do not occasion because they are not considered part of the physiological outcome but merely a drug experience. that is what the comment I replied was countering: GP claimed more study was needed to say the trip IS the treatment, and I’m saying the research has been done.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#143

Post by [deleted] »

zionic wrote: post #37
heap_perms wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

>long-term positive changes. Proponents frequently mention things like this, yet _no one_ who publicly admits to psych use is someone I want to be. All the people I've ever met, and friends who didn't but started down that road, aren't "all there" anymore. They'll preach day and night about the "benefits", but from the outside looking in it's obviously a coping mechanism.

[deleted]

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#144

Post by ericmcer »

User23 wrote: post #68
sianemo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I may not be someone you want to be for specific reasons relating to our individuality, I am a long time psych user and I'm demographically and overall culturally someone that is presented as desirable to be. I'm in a reasonably high income percentile, I lack unsecured debt, I'm happily married, I have a diverse social circle and several personal hobbies, I stay physically active, and I enjoy intellectual pursu…

I know alcoholics who are well to do, out of debt, happily married, and have a diverse social circle and several personal hobbies, get exercise, and enjoy thinking. None of that shows the merits of alcoholism. I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I could guess that it's your drug addiction that they have no desire to emulate. Addicts insisting that their addiction isn't one is cliché for a reason.

I challenge you to find someone addicted to psilocybin. I would be impressed if someone managed to do a trip sized dose let’s say… 2x a week for any long duration.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#145

Post by Gatsky »

labrador wrote: post #134
Gatsky wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These drugs clearly have risks. I know a case who took LSD and amputated his genitals during the trip (heard this first hand from the urologist who reattached said genitals). Sure, many or even most people will be fine, but some clearly won’t. Sure, he has a mental illness and took too much and was alone, but that’s exactly the issue. Do you have any suggestions how to make these drugs broadly safe without giving in…

From a reply I made later to a self-professed normie: I'm excited by what you describe [successful therapy] and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience. A list off the top of my head mentally ill people should avoid: hand guns,…

Maybe I have a different perspective working in healthcare. People with mental illness tend to self-medicate with whatever is available, so you can’t lump dynamite and rope together with psychoactive drugs as the degree of actual harm is a different order of magnitude. As always, with any libertarian approach to regulation, it’s vulnerable people who suffer (mentally ill, poor, children) for the ideals of others. I find this is rarely a good deal in the final analysis.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#146

Post by klyrs »

throw819352119 wrote: post #66

I have a friend who has severe depression, including self harm and thoughts of suicide. So far guided meditation sessions and antidepressants have had little effect. I have read that some illicit drugs can be effective in treating depression, even after just one or two uses. Can anyone suggest what might be the best option out of ketamine, shrooms, LSD or MDMA?

Most people I've met who use ketamine at all are addicted to ketamine, and long-term heavy usage has severe negative consequences. It has therapeutic uses and can be used to treat otherwise untreatable depression, but the risks are severe if somebody seeks it out on their own.

MDMA is a good trip, but damn the hangover: I wouldn't suggest your friend endure "suicide Tuesday."

Shrooms and LSD can be effective, but a bad trip can aggravate depression and anxiety.

There are no silver bullets. Therapeutic uses involve therapists. The only advice I can give is that your friend seek out a competent therapist.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#147

Post by amanaplanacanal »

vorpalhex wrote: post #102
tastyfreeze wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shamanic rituals have been the cornerstone of many of the great civilizations of the past. Why are substances that induce introspection and a sense of belonging to something greater than yourself banned?

Sometimes they cause psychotic breaks and Timmy eats off Becca's ear or runs buck naked into the woods and dies. You know, that sorta stuff.

The only reason you hear about stuff like that is because it is so uncommon.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#148

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Gatsky wrote: post #145
labrador wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a reply I made later to a self-professed normie: I'm excited by what you describe [successful therapy] and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience. A list off the top of my head mentally ill people should avoid: hand guns,…

Maybe I have a different perspective working in healthcare. People with mental illness tend to self-medicate with whatever is available, so you can’t lump dynamite and rope together with psychoactive drugs as the degree of actual harm is a different order of magnitude. As always, with any libertarian approach to regulation, it’s vulnerable people who suffer (mentally ill, poor, children) for the ideals of others. I f…

The alternative is throwing people in prison. Which seems to me to be a much worse deal.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#149

Post by babyshake »

klyrs wrote: post #146
throw819352119 wrote: post #66

I have a friend who has severe depression, including self harm and thoughts of suicide. So far guided meditation sessions and antidepressants have had little effect. I have read that some illicit drugs can be effective in treating depression, even after just one or two uses. Can anyone suggest what might be the best option out of ketamine, shrooms, LSD or MDMA?

Most people I've met who use ketamine at all are addicted to ketamine, and long-term heavy usage has severe negative consequences. It has therapeutic uses and can be used to treat otherwise untreatable depression, but the risks are severe if somebody seeks it out on their own. MDMA is a good trip, but damn the hangover: I wouldn't suggest your friend endure "suicide Tuesday." Shrooms and LSD can be effective, but a b…

After one "normal" dose of MDMA without doing a bunch of doses over a weekend or something, the hangover tends to not be any worse than a typical alcohol hangover.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#150

Post by labrador »

Gatsky wrote: post #145
labrador wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a reply I made later to a self-professed normie: I'm excited by what you describe [successful therapy] and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience. A list off the top of my head mentally ill people should avoid: hand guns,…

Maybe I have a different perspective working in healthcare. People with mental illness tend to self-medicate with whatever is available, so you can’t lump dynamite and rope together with psychoactive drugs as the degree of actual harm is a different order of magnitude. As always, with any libertarian approach to regulation, it’s vulnerable people who suffer (mentally ill, poor, children) for the ideals of others. I f…

I have a couple of psychiatric diagnoses so I am not unaware of the concerns of the mentally ill. People like me know to be very cautious with medicine, prescribed or otherwise. It should have a say in whether I should be locked up or what substances I feel I can safely use.

I think there's a problem that we can agree on and that is early detection and treatment of mental illness in teens before they get their hands on an AR-15 or LSD. As a culture, America is very neglectful in this regard.

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