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The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

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Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#111
post #9
post #2

It's sad that the only way to legalize is to force people to see a qualified therapist and take patented psychedelics in order to benefit from the experience, but that's what the normies want. I've taken them with a therapist and it was meh because the doctor/patient relationship became weird under the influence. On the other hand I've had peak experiences by myself alone in a redwood forest on a fresh clear morning.

As a normie for whom ketamine treatment was a life changer, I can attest I would never ever have taken it without specialist supervision. And by specialist, I mean someone qualified, not some dude who has done plenty and has a K dealer. I would hazard there’s a large contingent of normies for whom the difference between supervised medical treatments that happen to be psychedelics and just the act of taking psychedeli…

>non-normies I assume can still do black market work.

Why do you want non-normies to have gun toting government thugs put them in a concrete box for 20 years because they don't want to get a permission slip to do the same thing you did?

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

That is a claim that would require a study to confirm. No such study has been done to my knowledge.

Studies have been done! Here is the latest one, for psilocybin. The mystical experiences are deeply related to therapeutic outcome https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2022.8416...

Here is the first one I am aware of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050654/. So 14 years of evidence backing up this claim.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I publicly, to my peer group at least, state I have enjoyed benefits of psychedelic drugs every five or ten years, I am pretty sure I have my shit together compared to most people. That being said i know the people you are talking about, but they in my experience use drugs much more frequently. Multiple times a year, and regularly also smoke weed etc. Obviously biased when talking about myself, but I think you can sp…

35 years of dealing with friends and family addiction issues. They all believe it doesn’t affect them negativity, that people can’t tell. They are all wrong. We can see the changes in them. Good or bad. The ones that make an effort to get off for awhile are usually shocked when they realize how they were being affected. I have never seen positive long term affects in anyone of them. Even though they all claim otherwi…

Addiction issues are a totally different animal. Just look up the definition of addiction. I’ll comfortably stand by my statement of use on the order of every few years being wellllllll within the margins of reasonable use.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

That is a claim that would require a study to confirm. No such study has been done to my knowledge.

Research on psychotherapeutic use of hallucinogens is done on this premise. At this point I believe it would be unethical to perform such a study. It would risk exposing subjects to psychological harm.

Edit: on the premise that the environment is crucial for the outcome. This means creating a safe comfortable environment. Maybe with these new drugs will show otherwise in time.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a claim that would require a study to confirm. No such study has been done to my knowledge.

Studies have been done! Here is the latest one, for psilocybin. The mystical experiences are deeply related to therapeutic outcome https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2022.8416... Here is the first one I am aware of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050654/ . So 14 years of evidence backing up this claim.

These mystical experiences are part of the outcome, not an environmental variable. There maybe anecdotal or some other kind of evidence in the sense of what the effect of the supporting environment is on the long term.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

That is a claim that would require a study to confirm. No such study has been done to my knowledge.

This is like asking for a study to prove you really love your children.

Anyone asking either doesn't have any or needs help.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#118
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

>long-term positive changes. Proponents frequently mention things like this, yet _no one_ who publicly admits to psych use is someone I want to be. All the people I've ever met, and friends who didn't but started down that road, aren't "all there" anymore. They'll preach day and night about the "benefits", but from the outside looking in it's obviously a coping mechanism.

You do it a few times and move on with your life. The Beatles famously only did it a handful of times during their most productive period and stopped all together eventually.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a claim that would require a study to confirm. No such study has been done to my knowledge.

Research on psychotherapeutic use of hallucinogens is done on this premise. At this point I believe it would be unethical to perform such a study. It would risk exposing subjects to psychological harm. Edit: on the premise that the environment is crucial for the outcome. This means creating a safe comfortable environment. Maybe with these new drugs will show otherwise in time.

These are the current guidelines https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18593734/

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#120
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking very broadly, ketamine has shown positive effects on depression, MDMA on PTSD, and psychedelics on grief and to some extent anxiety. So it really depends on what your friend is dealing with in their personal life.

By "psychedelics" do you mean psilocybin? As Ketamine and MDMA are also both psychedelic

I mean "classical" psychedelics whose activity is primarily mediated through activation of the 5-ht2a receptor.
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