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The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

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Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#71

Post by scythe »

NickC25 wrote: post #5

There was an NYT article not too long ago whose entire point is that "true" psychedelic drugs are too dangerous to go mainstream, but isolated chemical compounds that provide some of the chemical effects of LSD / Mushrooms / Ketamine without the "trip" were a much better way to go. The reasoning was that they could engineer a way to chemically induce neuroplastic change in the brain without the liability of visual or…

>the liability of visual or auditory hallucinations.

The visual/audio effects aren't what gets you on a trip, though. It's the headspace, the distortion of "automatic self-recognition", and to some extent, the role of the crucial 5-ht2a receptor in the sleep-wake cycle: all 5-ht2a antagonists are soporific, and almost all psychedelics produce insomnia as a side effect. A bad trip leading to worse after-effects practically always proceeds through a sleepless night.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#72

Post by LocalH »

User23 wrote: post #68
sianemo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I may not be someone you want to be for specific reasons relating to our individuality, I am a long time psych user and I'm demographically and overall culturally someone that is presented as desirable to be. I'm in a reasonably high income percentile, I lack unsecured debt, I'm happily married, I have a diverse social circle and several personal hobbies, I stay physically active, and I enjoy intellectual pursu…

I know alcoholics who are well to do, out of debt, happily married, and have a diverse social circle and several personal hobbies, get exercise, and enjoy thinking. None of that shows the merits of alcoholism. I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I could guess that it's your drug addiction that they have no desire to emulate. Addicts insisting that their addiction isn't one is cliché for a reason.

Psychedelics are largely not "addictive". Certainly not physiologically, and almost certainly not mentally.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#73

Post by mathgladiator »

engineer_22 wrote: post #43
mathgladiator wrote: post #15

Do we really need new ones? Maybe, we just need to decriminalize nature and let a shamanic class arise to guide us on a spiritual journey of self-awareness.

What could possibly go wrong?

I'm sure lots can go wrong, but the justice department is the wrong place for these issues to be resolved.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#74

Post by ad-astra »

zionic wrote: post #37
heap_perms wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

>long-term positive changes. Proponents frequently mention things like this, yet _no one_ who publicly admits to psych use is someone I want to be. All the people I've ever met, and friends who didn't but started down that road, aren't "all there" anymore. They'll preach day and night about the "benefits", but from the outside looking in it's obviously a coping mechanism.

This is the kind of anecdote that I used to hear about smoking weed. Tripping can be abused as a means of escape like many other things (work etc), but over-use without a proper cool-off/reintegration period can definitely throw one off psychologically. It’s a powerful tool that should be feared and respected (like the ocean) for its ability to fuck you up if you’re reckless.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#75

Post by scythe »

zionic wrote: post #37
heap_perms wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Talk about missing the forest from the trees. The whole transformative experience is the "trip" itself. " I couldn't agree more. In fact, the trip itself is not a nice side effect, it's the precondition to get measurable, long-term positive changes.

>long-term positive changes. Proponents frequently mention things like this, yet _no one_ who publicly admits to psych use is someone I want to be. All the people I've ever met, and friends who didn't but started down that road, aren't "all there" anymore. They'll preach day and night about the "benefits", but from the outside looking in it's obviously a coping mechanism.

People who do a bad job of concealing their illegal activities probably make other failures in judgment, too. The most well-adjusted psychedelic users I've met were the ones who only told me after I had known them for years.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#76

Post by LocalH »

engineer_22 wrote: post #43
mathgladiator wrote: post #15

Do we really need new ones? Maybe, we just need to decriminalize nature and let a shamanic class arise to guide us on a spiritual journey of self-awareness.

What could possibly go wrong?

Things are certainly not going "right" now, where everything medical has to be gatekept

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#77

Post by scythe »

throw819352119 wrote: post #66

I have a friend who has severe depression, including self harm and thoughts of suicide. So far guided meditation sessions and antidepressants have had little effect. I have read that some illicit drugs can be effective in treating depression, even after just one or two uses. Can anyone suggest what might be the best option out of ketamine, shrooms, LSD or MDMA?

Speaking very broadly, ketamine has shown positive effects on depression, MDMA on PTSD, and psychedelics on grief and to some extent anxiety. So it really depends on what your friend is dealing with in their personal life.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#79

Post by chiefalchemist »

Sad really. As this headline might as well be: "Big Pharma: Patents Equal Profits."

There are plenty of cultures and associated history to support using what we already have available.

The only reason to invent anything new would be to control access and make a buck. We're going through that with the Covid vaccine. What does it take for us to learn from our mistakes?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/07/13/1111137...

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#80

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

throw819352119 wrote: post #66

I have a friend who has severe depression, including self harm and thoughts of suicide. So far guided meditation sessions and antidepressants have had little effect. I have read that some illicit drugs can be effective in treating depression, even after just one or two uses. Can anyone suggest what might be the best option out of ketamine, shrooms, LSD or MDMA?

If their depression stems from isolation and the inability to relate to, trust, or connect with others then I'd recommend MDMA.
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