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The hero's journey of getting laid off

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Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#51

Post by ghaff »

bombcar wrote: post #25
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a "predictable eventuality" implies the victim is at fault for not preparing. I have a number of friends (of course, not software devs) who are aware that their company may at any point dump them (one company goes even so far as to say regularly "everyone is replaceable," and I have not been able to talk said friend out of leaving...). Due to a variety of reasons / excuses, they can't or won't leave these…

People treat being laid off like they treat death - it's something they intellectually know can happen, and does happen to others, but they're always entirely surprised when it happens to them. Many people (myself included!) have a hard time saving against potential outcomes and find it convenient to explain away why I don't (as I spend money on non-necessities).

>but they're always entirely surprised when it happens to them.

Not always. When I was laid off I wasn't surprised in the slightest. There had already been layoffs and the company eventually effectively shut down.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#52

Post by diob »

aetherson wrote: post #48
diob wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nearly impossible for folks outside our industry (or some comparable industry in terms of pay). Car trouble? Savings gone. Any sort of medical issue? Savings gone. I actually think those folks are more financially disciplined than us, given they somehow make it work despite their low pay.

Median household income in the US is about $67k, and of course median cost of living the US is much lower than in the SF Bay area. It is thoroughly possible to put away enough money to pay for car troubles or many kinds of medical problems without superhuman financial discipline for most households in the US. Now: 1. Is there a substantial minority who genuinely can only really live hand-to-mouth in the US? Yes. 2. I…

I think actual numbers are hard to come by, but I would say it's like a "go do it then" sort of thing. It's easy for well off folks to offer thoughts / advice.

Go accept a $67k job (which is actually higher than each of my non tech friends, but whatever), and then go live somewhere on that (renting too!). After a few years, show me how much you've saved. I have zero doubt you'll find it's been eaten up by emergencies, etc. Then get laid off! Hopefully you don't have family to take care of either. I don't even want to think about what happens to your health in that time (fitness, nutrition, etc.).

That's why I have major respect for folks who do it. I don't think I'd have the resolve.

That's also why I fight for better pay / social safety net for all. They shouldn't have to live like that.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#53

Post by georgex7 »

davidw wrote: post #45

You don't have to abide by everything the guy says, but I like a lot of the ideas over at https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ in terms of living frugally. The ultimate form of freedom is being able to decide what you want to do with your time. One way of accomplishing that is making a ridiculous amount of money via a successful exit. Another way is to structure your life so that you're ok with less. Sure, I think most w…

Yeah he takes a super rational view of it. Shows the power of emotions, social pressure, etc that so few people do.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#54

Post by georgex7 »

cardanome wrote: post #50

Never do anything your love for money. If you are intrinsically motivated to do something bringing external factors like money into it might ruin you motivation and love for the thing you had. High chance of burn out. Find work that has great synergy with your hobbies/interest but is not exactly the same. Either requiring similar skill or being the the same or related field. That way they will fuel each other. And mo…

I think people should strive to find meaning in work, even if it's difficult. If they can't, then at least they gave it a shot. And of course, you should find meaning outside of work as well.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#55

Post by colechristensen »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #23
colechristensen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much less of a nightmare if you're prepared for this kind of predicable eventuality. If you're living paycheck to paycheck it's a nightmare, if you've got months saved up set aside for exactly this kind of thing it's a vacation.

Calling it a "predictable eventuality" implies the victim is at fault for not preparing. I have a number of friends (of course, not software devs) who are aware that their company may at any point dump them (one company goes even so far as to say regularly "everyone is replaceable," and I have not been able to talk said friend out of leaving...). Due to a variety of reasons / excuses, they can't or won't leave these…

I really am blaming the "victim" of a layoff of an upper class engineering job if they suffer the consequences of setting up their lives as though they will always be employed without gaps.

It is not a lot to ask for someone in the top x% of earners to set aside a few months' expenses instead of spending every dollar on housing/food/entertainment/etc.

There are situations where employers do mistreat employees, but failing to guarantee perpetual employment is not one of them.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#56

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

I really enjoyed that!

I was laid off my last job. It was totally expected (I saw it coming, years ahead), and the "forcing function" for me, was encountering the Brick Wall of Silicon Valley Ageism.

It forced me to accept that I was in early retirement; whether or not I liked it.

Turns out, it was the best thing that could have happened to me.

META: He may want to reconsider his choice of thumbnails. I think it's a great one, but Disney has a rather fearsome reputation for going after even the smallest misuses of its IP.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#57

Post by colechristensen »

diob wrote: post #27
colechristensen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much less of a nightmare if you're prepared for this kind of predicable eventuality. If you're living paycheck to paycheck it's a nightmare, if you've got months saved up set aside for exactly this kind of thing it's a vacation.

The majority of folks are forced to live paycheck to paycheck, not of their own volition. I'd be fine for quite some time, heck I could probably semi retire so to speak.

Forced? No.

The majority of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck choose to live paycheck to paycheck and act like every expense is an obligation.

I, to be fair, have been one of them for significant amounts of time, but I chose it and the consequences which were of my own making.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#58

Post by UncleOxidant »

Over the coming months, tens (if not hundreds) of thousands will be laid off. This event will be the call to adventure for those that were disillusioned but hadn’t considered changing their professions.

(Or even just changing their job/company within the same profession.)

The layoffs in tech have started. It won't be as bad as the 2001-2004 dot com debacle. Possibly not as bad as the 2008-2012 period was (which wasn't as bad for tech vs the previous downturn, but was just bad overall). If you've prepared then this will be the pause that refreshes. The break you've been needing for a few years now. A time to regroup, learn new things, rethink your priorities. Recessions need not be fearsome things if you've got a good emergency fund and you can live frugally for a while. I used the '01-'04 downturn to go back to school and get a Masters degree. I view that time positively.

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#59

Post by aetherson »

diob wrote: post #52
aetherson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median household income in the US is about $67k, and of course median cost of living the US is much lower than in the SF Bay area. It is thoroughly possible to put away enough money to pay for car troubles or many kinds of medical problems without superhuman financial discipline for most households in the US. Now: 1. Is there a substantial minority who genuinely can only really live hand-to-mouth in the US? Yes. 2. I…

I think actual numbers are hard to come by, but I would say it's like a "go do it then" sort of thing. It's easy for well off folks to offer thoughts / advice. Go accept a $67k job (which is actually higher than each of my non tech friends, but whatever), and then go live somewhere on that (renting too!). After a few years, show me how much you've saved. I have zero doubt you'll find it's been eaten up by emergencies…

I think actual numbers aren't at all hard to come by, this is extremely well-studied and easily available to anyone by Googling. But I see that now we're going to go, "Well, the anecdotes of my friends trump actual data."

Re: The hero's journey of getting laid off

#60

Post by bitL »

tra3 wrote: post #3

I'm thankful that the school that I attended forced us to take electives outside of Computer Science and Engineering. I took some Psychology classes. The list of stressful events was very surprising to me. The author alludes to it in the post. I recall that typically "happy" events are stressful, too. Here's the list [0]: Death of a spouse (or child*): 100 Divorce: 73 Marital separation: 65 Imprisonment: 63 Death of…

One can address the stress of layoffs by switching over to becoming a consultant, slowly ramping up premiums, treating each job as something that can end the next day, and scheduling the life with that in mind (i.e. not putting all your eggs into a single basket, talking to other "job-providers" all the time etc.).
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