Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worse than that. You omitted * User has no idea what they did wrong, and nor does anybody else. And the trouble with that is, nobody can learn what the offensive behaviour was. (Perhaps that's intentional?)
It's not intentional against legitimate users, but it is intentional against people abusing the system, because telling them how they got caught will let them adjust what they are doing, to avoid getting caught in the future.
Oracle Suspended My Account
181–190 of 302 posts
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I discovered recently that my bank (in Germany) can cancel my account without cause. My best guess is they were purging the books of Americans, they refused to tell me the reason, but my takeaway is that if this can happen in the consumer-protection nirvana that is the EU, don’t hold your breath waiting for exploitative practices to be outlawed.
Did they give you your money promptly? How?
So I had about a week's warning and I was able to transfer my money out to other accounts. Had I not done that, they would presumably have held on to it until I'd gone in and personally told them where to send it, which would have locked me out of my money had I been abroad -- it was my primary account, held in good standing for 13 years.
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Connecting these services with a VPN is the very definition of shady. I don't think OP mentioned using a VPN. But even if they had: really, managing a cloud infrastructure via VPN is so far from shady that it's often recommended or required by many tech companies' security policies for people working from public wifi locations among other circumstances, as an added layer of protection against local eavesdropping an…
> But even if they had: really, managing a cloud infrastructure via VPN is so far from shady that it's often recommended or required by many tech companies' security policies for people working from public wifi locations among other circumstances, as an added layer of protection against local eavesdropping and sometimes also for specific predictable networking routing within a cloud network perimeter. We're talking a…
Honestly, a student/hobbyist from Turkey who is trying specifically to defend against a local eavesdropping or censorship threat, or to work around restrictive firewall configurations on public WiFi networks, might very well use exactly the same types of VPNs you're describing, for some of the same legitimate purposes as any professional would use their corporate VPN. After all, they don't have a corporate IT department to maintain their own private VPN. These types of companies probably have more friendly pricing for a student/hobbyist from Turkey than the VPN companies whose marketing material focused on corporate use cases instead of circumventing Netflix geo blocks.
You're right that it would not be the ideal type of VPN for database access control, but I can imagine it being an element of viable defense-in-depth strategies where one is in a country where most inbound local traffic other than your own would be malicious. Imagine coupling a restriction on source IP range with TLS + IAM credentials, or something like that. Requiring a presence on the specific chosen VPN company's netblock drastically shrinks the threat model vs allowing connection attempts from 0.0.0.0/0.
> I'm not siding with Oracle, but Oracle owes absolutely nothing to a free tier user suspected of fraud.
I agree that they don't owe anything to such a user, but equally we don't owe it to Oracle to refrain from criticizing these kinds of false positives in their fraud detection with no avenue for redress. Anyone who either experiences or hears about these kinds of outcomes is justified both in criticizing Oracle and in being less likely to recommend or choose Oracle for their or their employer's cloud computing needs.
In turn, Oracle owes it to themselves to at least consider that possible consequence, and to allow at least enough redress to keep the severity of this reputational impact within whatever range they deem acceptable.
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#184It's interesting to see that they also adopted the current industry standard of automatically banning people at random, not telling them why and not giving them any way to rectify it. But then, well, I mean, it's Oracle. What did you expect? Normally something like this would put them on my "will never use any of their products nor work with them" shitlist, but it's Oracle, so they were already there since, like, eve…
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not intentional against legitimate users, but it is intentional against people abusing the system, because telling them how they got caught will let them adjust what they are doing, to avoid getting caught in the future.
Yes. Exactly. Telling people what they've done wrong enables them to behave better in future. Isn't that what we want... rehabilitation?
That does not work on people who are using your system with malicious intentions (and who face zero personal consequences when they get caught again, and again, and again). They don't get rehabilitated, when you tell them which rule you broke[1], they just adjust their malicious use to work around that rule. Rehabilitation is only possible when both parties are operating in good faith, which is why it is done with threat of prison, fines, revocation of parole, etc. It can't be done when the 'rehabilitated' party can just reneg on the agreement with zero consequences.
The point of anti-abuse rules isn't the letter of the rules, it's the intent behind them. 'There's no rule that says a dog can't play basketball' only works in children's fairy tales.
There's a reason why no large firm or financial institution will tell you the why. It's not because they think you have good intentions, and they hate you. It's because they are afraid you have malicious intentions, and they aren't interested in holding your hand as you defraud them.
Of course, people in category one get burnt by this, and then complain on Twitter/FB/HN.
[1] If you want to live in a world where anti-abuse systems tell you which rule you broke, you'll probably need to also live in a world where there are very serious consequences that are - with high consistency - inflicted on people breaking those rules in bad faith. We don't live in that kind of world, things like the CFAA are at the same time, both overly broad and draconian and largely toothless.
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#186Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
You missed out an important step * HNers, redditors and TikTokers somehow always believe the user's side of the story even though they have absolutely no clue about the context or the integrity of the complainer because pitchfork and anti-corp is always the default stance rather than due process on social media
If you get sued and don't bother to show up to court, the judge will take the other side's word as gospel and you'll lose with a default judgment against you. This isn't unfair, though. Similarly, since these companies never give their side of the story, I see nothing unfair about assuming they're in the wrong.
Oracle should absolutely out the guys whom they suspend because they have kiddie porn or did illegal transactions on their site or break terms of services.
Seeing Musk and Trump's success, one bold company will do it and will be enormously successful in deploying an army of cults against the Karens of the world. As they say, you can't bring a knife to a gun's fight
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#188Wow, that Oracle Cloud customer support transcript the author found is particularly damning. What a terrible customer experience. I guess this is Oracle-ese for "you're not rich enough for us to care." > Customer: Can you help me to see what happen with my Oracle Cloud account please? > Agent: let me check it . one moment > Customer: Sure. It says in the Tenancy details that my user is inactive. Even if I try to upgr…
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#189It's interesting to see that they also adopted the current industry standard of automatically banning people at random, not telling them why and not giving them any way to rectify it. But then, well, I mean, it's Oracle. What did you expect? Normally something like this would put them on my "will never use any of their products nor work with them" shitlist, but it's Oracle, so they were already there since, like, eve…
I think if you're making a list of big tech companies that will sometimes randomly shut-out customers due to automated monitoring, then that's all of them isn't it? I've seen a story about every one of them I'm sure. It's not a problem with individual companies, it's a general societal problem.
Re: Oracle Suspended My Account
#190"Oracle Cloud Infrastructure's Free Tier includes a free time-limited promotional trial that allows you to explore a wide range of Oracle Cloud Infrastructure products, and a set of Always Free offers that never expire."
Their FAQ:[2]
"When you've reached the end of your 30-day trial or used all your Free Trial credits (whichever comes first), you’ll be notified and will have a grace period of 30 days, starting from the expiration date, to upgrade to paid. You will no longer be able to create new paid resources, but your account will remain active. Your resources will continue to exist for a few days, allowing you to upgrade your account and keep your resources before they're reclaimed by Oracle. If you do not upgrade to paid by the end of the grace period, your Free Trial service instances and data will be deleted."
Which is reasonable enough.
I can't find their terms of service or EULA. Most web sites have a "legal" or "terms" link at the bottom of pages, but Oracle does not. Google can find their web site terms of service.[3] But that's for the web site only, not their cloud services.
[1] https://docs.oracle.com/en-us/iaas/Content/FreeTier/freetier...