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Think different about Jobs

james.cridland.net

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Re: Think different about Jobs

#171

Post by kiba »

jacquesm wrote: post #167
billpatrianakos wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Why should you be able to reverse engineer Apple products? What makes you think you're entitled to the source of this company's products? None of us should feel entitled to be able to hack and reverse engineer anything! If a cdeveloper or company is nice enough to open source something then that's awesome! If you don't like proprietary software then don't buy it. If you want to hack something, make it from sc…

> None of us should feel entitled to be able to hack and reverse engineer anything! Yes we should be. > I'm reminded of the naive thinking of a teenager whenever I hear rhetoric like this. This ain't no hippie commune. This isn't a get rich quick commune either. Alternative viewpoints can and do exist on a community this large, neither you nor the OP speak for all of us.

This isn't a get rich quick commune either. Alternative viewpoints can and do exist on a community this large, neither you nor the OP speak for all of us.

That's the thing. I wasn't against profit at all. We all know that Google is doing android to protecting its bottom line. That doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#172

Post by kiba »

unalone wrote: post #119
kiba wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't really care about how good Apple products are or how innovative are. I don't use them, I don't hate them either. It's just not for me. My beef with apple is how they felt entitled to control the devices that apple made but consumers own, making them unhackable. When I buy something, I own it, period. I should be able to reverse engineer anything on the market, because I obtained the copy. I don't gi…

> But, if Apple win the mobile war, we are screwed as far as freedom and ownership is concerned. Sentences like this are why the phrase "mobile war" should be taken away from all of us and placed on the high shelf next to the cookie jar. "Mobile war" is an exciting idea – much more exciting than "competitive mobile marketplace" – and so we like to think in these terms despite how misleading they are. There is no mobi…

If you believe the history of mobile phone is like the history of the desktop, then of course, it's a war. It does not matter if there's a half a billion, a billion. At some point, it become a zero sum game.

The choices we have will at some point stop being choices. They will stop to exists and whatever platform wins, get to dictate what rules are we going to play by.

The other disquieting thing about your comment, to me, is that you think Apple's "magic" is simply a matter of polish. As if you just wipe it with a rag for a few months and suddenly it gleams. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of UI/UX design. Achieving the level of elegance that Apple products frequently (not always) possess requires tremendous focus and talent.

It doesn't mean that you have to dictate, control, censor what apps are allowed in your store, make developers sell their soul to you, and so on. You do not have to be a control freak.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#173

Post by sbuk »

spacefungus wrote: post #155
ricardobeat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get rid of your television, shoes, computer, mobile phone and clothes then. They are all made in china (or indonesia/taiwan/etc) in probably worse conditions. What do you even know about their manufacturing? "I'm glad to see someone holding him accountable for […] the consequences of his actions" is what I'd call over-dramatic.

I don't know much about their manufacturing, which is why I do what I can to buy from people I know and buy from within the United States. As I replied to Nirvana, I'm recognizing the fact that Jobs, like everyone, was not perfect and had negative qualities. I'm also recognizing his involvement in a supply chain I don't feel 100% happy about. I still buy his products but I'm aware of the negative stuff, too. I'm just…

Please stop resorting to reductio ad Hitlerum arguments. It cheapens the thread, is lazy and soporific and will never make your point, if anything it does the exact opposite.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#174

Post by sofal »

ahoyhere wrote: post #129
nirvana wrote: post #63

Isaacson's book is a hatchet job, with many errors, and some downright dishonest statements. It is a shame that Jobs cooperated with that hack. In numerous passages, Isaacson will quote Jobs saying something perfectly truthful[1], and then follow it up with a claim that Jobs is lying. Most of the time, he doesn't provide any evidence that Jobs is lying, just the assertion, because, as Isaacson is careful to tell us m…

Thanks for taking the time to write all this up. I haven't delved into my copy yet, but it's great that now I can do so knowing that I shouldn't trust Isaacson's editorializing. I joined Hacker News a long time ago. I think it's shameful that people here now don't know any better -- or don't have the brains -- than to say that it doesn't matter if the book is full of bald-faced lies, because Steve Jobs was not a nice…

Old guard? Don't flatter yourself. It always has been and always will be emotionally heated, name-calling comments like yours that detract from HN.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#175

Post by gensym »

kiba wrote: post #172
unalone wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, if Apple win the mobile war, we are screwed as far as freedom and ownership is concerned. Sentences like this are why the phrase "mobile war" should be taken away from all of us and placed on the high shelf next to the cookie jar. "Mobile war" is an exciting idea – much more exciting than "competitive mobile marketplace" – and so we like to think in these terms despite how misleading they are. There is no mobi…

If you believe the history of mobile phone is like the history of the desktop, then of course, it's a war. It does not matter if there's a half a billion, a billion. At some point, it become a zero sum game. The choices we have will at some point stop being choices. They will stop to exists and whatever platform wins, get to dictate what rules are we going to play by. The other disquieting thing about your comment, t…

> If you believe the history of mobile phone is like the history of the desktop, then of course, it's a war.

If you believe the history of the mobile phone is like the history of the desktop, then you're a poor student of history. At the very least, saying that the two are the same is far enough from a given that evidence of that situation should be provided.

Also, tip for arguing - the hyperbole of phrases like "make developers sell your soul to you" makes your argument hard to take seriously.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#176

Post by cageface »

jonhendry wrote: post #170
cageface wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for Ed for ten of those. Jobs was very hands off at Pixar. I think he realized that Ed had things under control.

True, but if anyone at Pixar was going to experience the worst of Jobs over the years, it would probably be Ed, because he would be one of the few interacting with Jobs.

Probably, which makes it that much more impressive (IMO) that he never tried to emulate Steve's less admirable qualities.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#177

Post by roflharrison »

unalone wrote: post #121
roflharrison wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but too tempting: It is safe to generalize that Android (why the quotes?) is open. There is continual activity on the Android source tree with updates for most versions of the platform well after December last year. The well publicised exclusion is Honeycomb and we can only speculate why Google kept that one to themselves (incomplete/Kindle Fire depending on your Android hate level). Even if you insist that…

Forgive me if this is an unfair line of argument, but I've read a number of articles this month about how quickly Android phones become ineligible for an OS upgrade, because so many Android phones mean carriers can push the latest OS only to their most recent phones. Compare that to the closed system of iOS, where only one brand of phone uses the system, yet the 2.5-year-old 3Gs just got the upgrade to iOS 5. Android…

I will hazard a guess that anyone who cares about the freedoms we are discussing is capable of rooting and installing a custom ROM or researching a purchase to ensure they get a device that is free to do what they want.

Of course, these same users would also be able to jailbreak an iPhone, but does that lock you out of the Apple loop (i.e. App store, Siri, iCloud)? I honestly don't know so that is not a rhetorical question.

Bringing this in a full circle and back to topic, I'm sure Steve Jobs pushy attitude is one of the reasons (perhaps the only reason) iPhone's aren't tainted with carrier garbage and upgrade(less) shenanigans. Just because it worked for him doesn't mean it will work for you.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#178

Post by gbog »

jamescridland wrote: post #117
gbog wrote: post #7

> (Incidentally, my Kindle crashed three times while reading this book.) I don't know which Kindle the author is talking about, but it seems weird to me, I never heard of a Kindle crash and I have 4/5 around, not counting colleagues'. And, maybe it is off-topic, but maybe it is not. Why would the author add this parenthesis if it was not a necessary adjunction to his point? Maybe it was a way to underline how non-App…

As the author... It's a Kindle Keyboard. I just found it ironic that a competing product to the iPad was crashing when reading the biography of the person responsible for the iPad. That's all. I think mine has an issue with the battery level sensor, and that it was actually very low on power. I do not have any cover for it. In terms of my businesswoman comment, it is based on my experience, as is very clear, and acco…

Kindle crash: then maybe you could have removed this line, because it sounds like a software issue.

Businesswomen: if your experience doesn't involve hundreds of women of power, it is incomplete and you must get the experience of others in the game, eg read books.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#179

Post by gbog »

ahoyhere wrote: post #125
unalone wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, if Apple win the mobile war, we are screwed as far as freedom and ownership is concerned. Sentences like this are why the phrase "mobile war" should be taken away from all of us and placed on the high shelf next to the cookie jar. "Mobile war" is an exciting idea – much more exciting than "competitive mobile marketplace" – and so we like to think in these terms despite how misleading they are. There is no mobi…

> You have your Android phone! Why must you wish misfortune on my choice? Because people like this are hypocrites… they want to take your choice away, and scream and fight and claw madly if they don't get their choice. Mentally, these people are still children. They look at everything (e.g. alll of business) as it if it is a zero-sum game. They take everything personally. It's hard not to be offended when you think a…

Your are saying grand parent is mentally a children, I don't how this is perceived in your culture, in mine it is not acceptable.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#180

Post by gbog »

matwood wrote: post #130
kiba wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't really care about how good Apple products are or how innovative are. I don't use them, I don't hate them either. It's just not for me. My beef with apple is how they felt entitled to control the devices that apple made but consumers own, making them unhackable. When I buy something, I own it, period. I should be able to reverse engineer anything on the market, because I obtained the copy. I don't gi…

Somebody can alway polish their own android version and make it like the magical apple products that I hear so much about. I hate the 'apple makes most of the profits' line that gets talked about all the time (even though true), but if what you say is really so easy then why hasn't someone or some company done it? Things is, it's not easy. This is where techies (myself included) often miss there is something beyond a…

Art? You mean to compare iPhones and other manufactured consumer gadgets with art masterpieces like Mona Lisa or Mahler's 5th?
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