U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#251

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 2:23 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #243

jessaustin wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what would the JSF need to show capability-wise in order to change your mind? My objections are not limited to the plane's capabilities. No capabilities would justify especially egregious costs. A sure-to-be-revised-upward $1.7T is probably egregious enough. Similar criticism applies to the military overall. ...if I was only allowed to have one plane in theater... This seems an unrealistic limitation. Very few air…

It’s odd that you would find the same type of constraints, such as limiting the evaluation to the single dimension of close air support, to support your view while saying the same constraints are unreasonable in your next response. I would like you to consider that we likely don’t disagree. I never said that money should be spent on the military or even by the government for that matter. The fact that was how you int…

I only offered CAS as a sop to the arcane MIC theology seen in this thread. All this prattle about per-unit basis, "Reformers", airframes, base rates, when the Pentagon can't even be audited. I don't particularly care about CAS; we shouldn't be there in the first place.

Either you agree, or you don't. If I can't figure it out, I can't care about it.

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#252

Post by ncmncm » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 2:36 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #216

ncmncm wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Space Shuttle is a clinker, here. It never did anything well, and its costs gutted other, overwhelmingly more valuable programs.

Generalization (not specialization) was it’s strong point as well as it’s weakness. The reason why it was a design boondoggle was because it had to meet the requirements of many masters. People forget it has a number of DoD missions in addition to the more publicly known NASA missions.

The DoD missions its design was compromised for did not happen.

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#253

Post by User23 » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 2:40 AM UTC

bityard wrote: post #106

Sharlin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Very very few things in nature actually are made of large blobs of a single color (unless you're very shortsighted). Honestly, it baffles me why militaries didn't realize this earlier.

Source: former military member. In combat, camouflage is really the VERY last line of defense possible, and a fairly weak one at that. If the difference between staying alive and being dead is the pattern of your clothing, a lot of things have already gone seriously wrong and your chances of survival are not great. In the grand scheme of things, camo relatively high-hanging fruit. Money and time have mostly been spen…

How much of this is due to the US military spending the past generation dunking on goatherds? I imagine the pattern on your uniform is entirely irrelevant when up against an equivalent technology adversary with proper artillery and air power. On the other hand having the guy with the AK be 20% more likely to miss his first shot sounds like it’s worth doing some research on your clothing’s appearance.

Speaking of, is traditional garb at all effective from a tactical standpoint?

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#254

Post by jabl » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 2:54 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #253

bityard wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source: former military member. In combat, camouflage is really the VERY last line of defense possible, and a fairly weak one at that. If the difference between staying alive and being dead is the pattern of your clothing, a lot of things have already gone seriously wrong and your chances of survival are not great. In the grand scheme of things, camo relatively high-hanging fruit. Money and time have mostly been spen…

How much of this is due to the US military spending the past generation dunking on goatherds? I imagine the pattern on your uniform is entirely irrelevant when up against an equivalent technology adversary with proper artillery and air power. On the other hand having the guy with the AK be 20% more likely to miss his first shot sounds like it’s worth doing some research on your clothing’s appearance. Speaking of, is…

The vast firepower of modern armies would make it more important to not be seen in the first place, not less?

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#255

Post by samstave » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 3:27 AM UTC

akerl_ wrote: post #132

samstave wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had a really odd thought cross my head and want to just document here before I forget it: The way rifles work with recoils driving the expulsion of a shell after firing and using that force to load the next round to chamber (the famous AK47 design) -- Would there be a method of attaching a compressed water bottle with valve with a donut nozzle with vents out at angles to the optimal suppression of the muzzle f…

You’re basically describing “muzzle brakes and flash suppressors, but with more components to refill/repair” Separately, using the force of the round (either via a gas tube or via direct rearward motion) to propel the action of the firearm isn’t really an AK47 thing, it’s common to all semi automatic rifles and predates the AK47 by quite a while.

I know.

"propel the action of the firearm isn’t really an AK47 thing, it’s common to all semi automatic rifles and predates the AK47 by quite a while. "

Kalashnikov invented the easiest way to manufacture this behavior... This is the reason its the most heinous of weapons.

I am talking about something different. And thats OK.

-

I am talking about a specific method of funneling muzzle output to funnel through your suppression...

I am talkingabout a hydro-enahnaced flash press which does a certain thing. Please talk about what that certain thing is.

--

The most environmentally way to reduce muzzle flash. Cloud of water vapor as an expulsion of the muzzle such that it interacts with the blast easily enough to expel the right amount of water vapor through the expulsion chamber as the expression continues through the valve, (barrel) and its in-flame-ant mitigated by the entrenchment water vapor cloud to expel the munition, but still keep other perams in check?

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#256

Post by samstave » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 3:31 AM UTC

hajile wrote: post #210

Sharlin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think muzzle flash is a big problem in today's rifles. Any powder left burning by the time the bullet exits the barrel is wasted energy, so things tend to get optimized pretty thoroughly (this is the field of internal and transitional ballistics). Carbine-length firearms (if they're chambered for rifle rounds) do tend to have bigger issues with muzzle flash. Flash suppressors [1], either integrated or add-on,…

Muzzle flash is a HUGE problem with modern ar-15 style rifles. You won't get 100% efficiency until something like 22-26 inch barrels, but that's a VERY long gun to be using (and even those have muzzle flash). With all the urban combat, there's a push toward shorter and maneuverable. In something short like the 10.5" M4A1 CQBR, flash becomes a much bigger problem (especially in dark rooms where it can be positively bl…

This was what I was talking about, but failed to articulate.

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#257

Post by livueta » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #255

akerl_ wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re basically describing “muzzle brakes and flash suppressors, but with more components to refill/repair” Separately, using the force of the round (either via a gas tube or via direct rearward motion) to propel the action of the firearm isn’t really an AK47 thing, it’s common to all semi automatic rifles and predates the AK47 by quite a while.

I know. " propel the action of the firearm isn’t really an AK47 thing, it’s common to all semi automatic rifles and predates the AK47 by quite a while. " Kalashnikov invented the easiest way to manufacture this behavior... This is the reason its the most heinous of weapons. I am talking about something different. And thats OK. - I am talking about a specific method of funneling muzzle output to funnel through your su…

Maybe relevant to your idea, if I'm understanding it correctly: you can put water in a suppressor to mitigate first round pop.

(pdf) heading 9: https://assets.surefire.com/uploads/2019/07/SF-BSD-manuals.p...

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#258

Post by seandavidfisher » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 4:29 AM UTC

So what’s the rest of the story? Who was selected as the Phase IV winner?

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#259

Post by chriselles » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 4:46 AM UTC

Camouflage for high value assets is rapidly becoming a point of focus.

The Armenia-Azerbaijan war of 2020 and the Russia-Ukraine war of 2022 have both displayed the growing need to prioritise sensor camouflage.

The contemporary peer on peer battlefield runs 24/7, but humans require periodic quality rest.

The two most recent peer on peer conflicts display how stopping and harbouring up makes you an easier fixed target.

The conundrum of the modern battlefield is that if you stop, you die. But if you don’t stop, you face rapid cognitive decline and die.

Sensor camouflage could be an insurance policy that meets or exceeds minimum rest and recovery needs of soldiers as well as improving expensive asset survivability in a world looking increasingly like “SCUD the Disposable Assassin” where loitering munitions are getting cheap enough to target individual combatants.

Re: U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013)

#260

Post by imwillofficial » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:34 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #229

imwillofficial wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The table stakes are uniforms here, lets not blow it out of proportion.

Until the Javascript cool kids invade your country because the USans elected a guy with a family grudge against your president. Then the Javascript cool kids decide whether to blow you into assorted body parts and pink mist in front of your parents because you tried to help a wounded child.

I for one welcome our JavaScript cool kid masters