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Disneyland with Death Penalty

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Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#121

Post by 12many »

robhunter wrote: post #21
nireyal wrote: post #18

There’s much to love about Singapore if you understand, or are willing to learn, Asian culture. It’s more collectivist than individualistic and while that certainly comes with trade offs, it has many benefits. I’ve lived here for almost 3 years and it feels like living in the future. No where is perfect but the quality of life here is amazing. The people I know who don’t like it are almost always white folks who don’…

Can you give some examples of Asian norms?

Think conservative values on a social scale minus the personal property part(don't know if the personal property is a general consensus or just authoritarian laws.) Drugs are forbidden, fathers rule the household, children are disciplined when they don't meet satisfaction, you're expected to work hard. You know all the things the conservatives get a bad rap for in the US but everyone thinks that way there and uses it in collectivism

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#122

Post by notahacker »

robhunter wrote: post #21
nireyal wrote: post #18

There’s much to love about Singapore if you understand, or are willing to learn, Asian culture. It’s more collectivist than individualistic and while that certainly comes with trade offs, it has many benefits. I’ve lived here for almost 3 years and it feels like living in the future. No where is perfect but the quality of life here is amazing. The people I know who don’t like it are almost always white folks who don’…

Can you give some examples of Asian norms?

Family-oriented social conservatism, instinctive obedience to authority and disinterest in political debate mostly. A lot of it actually bottom up rather than top down.

Obviously this clashes quite hard with cyberpunk using the aesthetic of Asia for characters who epitomise American ideas of rebellion, competition and countercultural coolness...

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#124

Post by whoooooo123 »

andrepd wrote: post #95
rayiner wrote: post #27

As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…

The usual fallacy, which you also make in your post, is assuming that none of that improvement would have happened under a free and democratic regime. That all improvements were because of iron-rule authoritarianism. Of course there are quite literally thousands of reasons that explain Singapore's economic growth. Attributing everything to only one of them, to the influence of an enlightened dictator, is silly. Want…

Where are you from?

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#125

Post by userbinator »

paulpauper wrote: post #76
picodguyo wrote: post #57

Some of you may be too young to remember the context of this. In 1993, an American was sentenced to be caned for what would be considered minor offenses in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay There was a huge media frenzy in the run-up to the punishment. Then he got caned, had a sore bottom, and life went on.

It sounds bad, and it is, until you realize that he was stealing street signs, which is a crime in probably any country, not just Singapore. TBH, who decides to steal street signs in a foreign country? Under the 1966 Vandalism Act, originally passed to curb the spread of political graffiti and which specifically penalized vandalism of government property,[1] Fay was sentenced on March 3, 1994, to four months in jail,…

but it also has a death penalty

...which is reserved for far more severe crimes, usually murder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Unit...

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#126

Post by mc32 »

sammalloy wrote: post #113
mc32 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is a benevolent "dictator(ship)". A benevolent dictator, from a most utility PoV is better than random search for good government via imperfect democracy. There is little question that a few countries in Asia benefitted from authoritarianism, some were more kid glovish than others, and obviously some were more violent than others in suppressing dissent. However, they achieved economic success for their people…

> The Philippines are an example where corruption as well as high pop growth dragged down progress. China too, initially was too authoritarian and too ideological One aspect about this topic that I’ve never seen discussed anywhere, is the bidirectional relationship between countries, such as how authoritarian and corrupt countries export their authoritarianism and corruption to other countries in the same way that th…

I think it's coincidence. Coöpting narrative and driving narrative were pioneered in modern times at least by Lenin and others --this tool was later copied by Mussolini and Goebbels. It's a tool that is known to work well to split people apart as a part of divide and conquer strategy.

Trolling though, that is also not new. The VoA and North Korean campaigns, to name but two, have promoted all kinds of destabilizing theories. The difference is the media used --Duterte used it to great success and so did ISIS.

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#127

Post by projectazorian »

pydry wrote: post #16
causi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of depends. It's more sterile. Dubai you get the impression they generally care about you having a good time, at least if you're Western. Singapore they care about you looking like you're having a good time. Singapore doesn't have the de facto slavery problem of the Emirates, though. Food is definitely better in Dubai.

>Singapore doesn't have the de facto slavery problem of the Emirates It kind of does. They import Bangladeshi construction workers to build all the glitzy skyscrapers and infrastructure and shove them in dorms 16 to a room. Im not sure if they confiscate their passports or not like in Dubai but i think they still do those contracts where they have to pay an agent and work off their debts. A fair number die because of…

> Im not sure if they confiscate their passports or not like in Dubai but i think they still do those contracts where they have to pay an agent and work off their debts.

Yes, most laborers are working off a debt to their agent. Confiscating passports is technically illegal, but very common in practice.

Safety regulations are tighter than in the Middle East, although still lax by the standards of most other developed countries.

People can report labor rights violations to the government, which sometimes even investigates them and takes action. But they are mostly content to turn a blind eye unless something is very egregious, and labor rights NGOS are understaffed and underfunded. And strikes are effectively illegal.

Unlike in the Middle East you can leave the country without your employer's permission, but this might be easier said than done in a lot of cases.

So, more indentured servitude than slavery. Still not great.

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#128

Post by [deleted] »

picodguyo wrote: post #57

Some of you may be too young to remember the context of this. In 1993, an American was sentenced to be caned for what would be considered minor offenses in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay There was a huge media frenzy in the run-up to the punishment. Then he got caned, had a sore bottom, and life went on.

[deleted]

Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty

#130

Post by [deleted] »

mcguire wrote: post #23

" The Singaporean government banned Wired upon the publication of the issue. The phrase "Disneyland with the death penalty" came to stand internationally for an authoritarian and austere reputation that the city-state found difficult to shake off. " Gosh, I wonder why that would be a hard reputation to get rid of?

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