I wasn't familiar with this phrase, but I can see why it has stuck. My first thought before clicking the article was that it referred to some place like Abu Dhabi or Riyadh; a middle eastern city that seems clean and safe, if you're in the right social class, but with horrific abuses happening out of the spotlight. Now that I think about it, this could describe an awful lot of cities and countries in the world.
Disneyland with Death Penalty
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Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#72As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…
>I read this and think "who cares?"
I'm not sure what you were expecting or what what angle you were approaching this article from.
There's more to life than economics and politics. I thought it was an interesting piece of history (especially as a Gibson fan) and also thought provoking aesthetic critique.
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#73I find this to be some of the most racist shit I've ever read. Gees I can't believe the comments here.
Singapore is one of the safest countries in the world. When I've brought up how much I like Singapore someone always retorts "Oh, that place where you get arrested for walking down the sidewalk and chewing gum" to which I also respond "Well, I could be in the USA where I get walk down the sidewalk and get mugged"
Singapore has way better clubs than SF or LA. If you want to party hard until late at night it's got plenty of options. Vs SF/LA where there's a 2am curfew your options effectively end at 1:30am.
Singapore has amazing food options open until 4-5am. Try getting food in LA/SF after 11. Your options becoming Dennys and that's about it.
Oh but someone said Singapore is boring. Did they actually go? For me, having to stop partying at 1:30 way more boring than partying til 3-4 am and then heading to a hawker marker for food options at 10-15 stands.
Singapore had taxis you could order on apps before Uber existed. Singapore has amazing public transportation. MRT lines and busses and easy access to reasonably priced taxis.
I get that the government is a little on the strict side but I find it hilarious that none of the Apple fans who spout how much they love Apple's walled garden don't see the parallels. I like places where I can go to a cafe, leave my stuff on the table to go-order and not have it stolen. I like it far more than USA culture where people have gotten so used to living in an a pit of crime that they blame the victim for any theft and there are signs everywhere "don't leave anything in your car!" because the police/government can't be bothered to do their jobs and instead let the baddies run/ruin the city for everyone else. In the USA, "oh, your bike got stolen. You're an idiot for not buying a better lock or for even thinking it was safe to lock it anywhere".
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give some examples of Asian norms?
I'm not sure if this is one the parent was thinking of - but there's generally a huge culture of "don't inconvenience others." This can have a lot of knock on effects, like leaving early (really, leaving before others) from work is inconveniencing your peers and your boss. Also, "filial duty" is pretty strong across a number of Asian cultures. i.e. you should be thinking of your family (parents, grandparents) before…
> This can have a lot of knock on effects, like leaving early (really, leaving before others) from work is inconveniencing your peers and your boss.
Does this go the other way too? Is the boss staying late (with the expectation that others do so as well) considered rude because it inconveniences his workers?
Because if not, this has nothing to do with being polite and everything to do with power and deference to power.
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kind of depends. It's more sterile. Dubai you get the impression they generally care about you having a good time, at least if you're Western. Singapore they care about you looking like you're having a good time. Singapore doesn't have the de facto slavery problem of the Emirates, though. Food is definitely better in Dubai.
I always found phrases like “Food is better in X city than Y”, just silly.
Really? A statement like "New Orleans has better food than East Saint Louis, Illinois" doesn't sound that silly to me.
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#76Some of you may be too young to remember the context of this. In 1993, an American was sentenced to be caned for what would be considered minor offenses in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay There was a huge media frenzy in the run-up to the punishment. Then he got caned, had a sore bottom, and life went on.
It sounds bad, and it is, until you realize that he was stealing street signs, which is a crime in probably any country, not just Singapore. TBH, who decides to steal street signs in a foreign country?
Under the 1966 Vandalism Act, originally passed to curb the spread of political graffiti and which specifically penalized vandalism of government property,[1] Fay was sentenced on March 3, 1994, to four months in jail, a fine of S$3,500 (US$2,814 or £2,114 at the time), and six strokes of the cane.[6] Shiu, who pleaded not guilty, was sentenced to eight months in prison and 12 strokes of the cane.[7]
Yes, the US does not cane people but it also has a death penalty, bad prison conditions relative to other g-20 nations (solitary confinement for example), and people get long sentences for recidivism, or for certain felonies, or under 3 strikes laws. I think there is room for improvement for many countries, not just Singapore. He was sentenced 4 months for stealing the signs, which is commensurate with a misdemeanor in the US (1 year max).
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#77As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…
>multiculturalism unfortunately that word more and more means "your universal human rights don't apply here". Many cultures across the world are decades and even centuries behind when it comes to human rights. The naturally authoritarian regimes there are usually don't care that much about the culture and only using that word to protect their power as the societal move forward to progress threatens that power. Among…
>your universal human rights
Are a lie. You only have the rights that you are able to wrest away from your government and those are far from universal.
Look at freedom of speech for example, then try to criticize the royal family when in Thailand.
Of look at your "right to self-defense", then look at how several western countries are acting in that regard. Or NYC even.
The US constitution states that only the powers enumerated are given to the government and everything else is reserved for the people. But look at how we act when our political adversaries are silenced or trampled, "Show me where in the constitution you have that right". We are willing to throw away our power to hurt those we find distasteful.
There is nothing universal about rights, except that you must win them through struggle and guard them jealously
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#78As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…
>multiculturalism unfortunately that word more and more means "your universal human rights don't apply here". Many cultures across the world are decades and even centuries behind when it comes to human rights. The naturally authoritarian regimes there are usually don't care that much about the culture and only using that word to protect their power as the societal move forward to progress threatens that power. Among…
It’s quite remarkable to me that the concept of “universal human rights” has made the jump from its Judeo-Christian origin—where there is a universal God to which to ascribe these universal rights—to secular thought. I don’t expect “universal human rights” are anything that would show up in an autopsy or other empirical investigation?
Where do these “universal human rights” come from? Who decides what they are? It’s hard to overlook the fact that, in practice, “universal human rights” means “the morals beliefs of people of European descent.” (Observe the downvotes to my comment below describing how Asians view the obligations of children to their parents.)
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#79As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…
The key is a benevolent "dictator(ship)". A benevolent dictator, from a most utility PoV is better than random search for good government via imperfect democracy. There is little question that a few countries in Asia benefitted from authoritarianism, some were more kid glovish than others, and obviously some were more violent than others in suppressing dissent. However, they achieved economic success for their people…
Keeping your dictators benevolent across decades and generations has proven a significantly hard problem. Even that give this form of government, in my view, far far too much credit.
Singapore is a rare contemporary example of a city-state, & I think that makes the scenario very different from most cases. Using this as an example seems ill suited.
Let's compare to one of your other cited cases, Philippines. Both experienced to degrees the wave of modernization following WW2, a moment of great possibility. Singapore is a very small nation, 1/4 the size of the smallest US State, Rhode Island. Sinagpore is positioned nicely amid a number of other countries giving it close trade access, and at the sea-most tip of a major intercontinental route. The Philippines is almost 100x bigger, about on par with Nevada, the 7th largest state, with much more space & population to tend to. Philippines is non-continugous in extreme, a nation of many islands, further exarcerbating the difficulty of effective governance. Philippines are isolated by a couple hundred miles of sea from other nations, and located rather at the edge of the map.
Singapore is one of the few city-states left on this planet, and it was one permitted to strain & grow at a crucial inflection point in human history.
Re: Disneyland with Death Penalty
#80As someone from Bangladesh, I read this and think "who cares?" In 1960 Singapore was a poor third world country. Today it's as rich as the US. You cannot understand how significant such a change is to the people of the country unless you've lived in a third world country and really seen what it's like. Whatever draconian measures it took to get there, they were worth it. Fareed Zakaria's interview with Lee Kuan Yew,…
The key is a benevolent "dictator(ship)". A benevolent dictator, from a most utility PoV is better than random search for good government via imperfect democracy. There is little question that a few countries in Asia benefitted from authoritarianism, some were more kid glovish than others, and obviously some were more violent than others in suppressing dissent. However, they achieved economic success for their people…
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