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AMD passes Intel in market cap

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Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#101

Post by asdajksah2123 »

Kranar wrote: post #86
axlee wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's only claim to profitability is government-enforced carbon compensation laws. Tesla is basically a greenwashing insurance that masquerades as a real automaker, don't get fooled.

It's cheaper to to provide that government-enforced carbon compensation than it is to provide the massive amounts of subsidies and tax credits that oil companies get. In other words, the government actually saves money every time someone buys an electric vehicle.

Both things are true though.

Oil companies get massive subsidies. And Tesla's survival is dependent on green subsidies.

There's an easy (and I'd daresay, correct) solution there. Not subsidizing oil and reducing green subsidies. Unfortunately, it's not politically palatable.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#102

Post by bekantan »

Intel was once known for its memory. Then it became known for its CPUs. I expect that they will pivot at least once more, this time to something which will supersede GPUs for ML workloads. This is, of course, very uncertain which is reflected in the size of my long position

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#103

Post by philistine »

DethNinja wrote: post #93

Does anyone think that all that backlash about Intel IME had an impact on this? I think Intel lost lots of confidence from domestic users due to accusations against IME. Not that AMD is any different but they somehow managed to not draw public attention to PSP.

It is inconceivable to think that one criticized aspect of Intel's design that AMD has as well somehow tanked Intel.

AMD's just got a much brighter future.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#105

Post by twblalock »

DethNinja wrote: post #93

Does anyone think that all that backlash about Intel IME had an impact on this? I think Intel lost lots of confidence from domestic users due to accusations against IME. Not that AMD is any different but they somehow managed to not draw public attention to PSP.

I don’t think the IME had anything to do with it. The people who complain about it online in tech forums are a small but vocal minority.

Intel’s poor performance last quarter was mostly self-inflicted.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#106

Post by bryanlarsen »

parkingrift wrote: post #77
njarboe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

I doubt that Tesla can continue to grow 50% YoY as soon as 2023. The Model S, X, and Y are extremely expensive compared to the competition. I’m in the market for an electric SUV right now. The Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 both seem legitimately better than the Model Y, and they are substantially less expensive. The Model Y AWD Long Range is $68,000. The Ioniq 5 SEL is $52,000. Tesla has historically never had to compe…

Tesla has a 20% margin and are still bringing online many measures to drastically reduce their costs. The complexity reduction in the upcoming Model Y's with dual gigacasts and batteries is massive. If they have to compete on price, they will. They know price competition is coming and are planning for it. Mass market was in their long term plan from day one. But they won't lower their price until they're forced too. Too soon would just leave money on the table like Hyundai is.

But for now they are competing quite well against the Ioniq 5. Dealerships are now taking reservations for 2025 models of the Ioniq 5. Many people would rather pay an extra $16,000 than wait over 2 years.

I don't think Tesla is overvalued. Some (but not all) of the traditional manufacturers are undervalued. Which ones, though, that's the hard question.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#107

Post by tyree731 »

itsoktocry wrote: post #59
njarboe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

> The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt They have huge amounts of debt because they run huge financing departments and therefore also have a huge number of assets on the balance sheet. > Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller. > Tesla has…

> They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller.

Well yes, but they've been successful with this sales model, and sell cars all the same, so that makes them more valuable in comparison.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#108

Post by ssharp »

victor106 wrote: post #63
njarboe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

> a stealth bailout of the domestic auto industry with a $7500 tax credit on cars that have just $750 worth of batteries in them. As it currently stands the $7500 limit is only for the first 200,000 cars. Tesla benefited a lot from it and exhausted its limit back in 2018. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-tax-credit/tesla-hi...

The bill the commenter was mentioning is currently in the Senate and hasn't been voted on yet. It would bring back the $7,500 credit for any EV that is built in the U.S. and removes the 200,000 limit. The bill also changes the mechanics of the credit so that it is applied immediately off the purchase price rather than a tax credit whenever you file. It also allows for up to a $4,000 credit on used EV's.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#109

Post by distances »

njarboe wrote: post #51
elromulous wrote: post #18

So I'm very much in camp AMD. But, market cap has proven over and over again to be kind of bogus. E.g. do we really think Tesla is actually worth more than the rest of the top 10 or so automakers?

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

> The top ten automakers have .. pension liabilities.

I don't think this part is true. I haven't heard of company pensions being a thing outside of US. I doubt VW, Toyota or Daimler have any pension liabilities at all, barring their US subsidiaries.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#110

Post by victor106 »

ssharp wrote: post #108
victor106 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a stealth bailout of the domestic auto industry with a $7500 tax credit on cars that have just $750 worth of batteries in them. As it currently stands the $7500 limit is only for the first 200,000 cars. Tesla benefited a lot from it and exhausted its limit back in 2018. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-tax-credit/tesla-hi...

The bill the commenter was mentioning is currently in the Senate and hasn't been voted on yet. It would bring back the $7,500 credit for any EV that is built in the U.S. and removes the 200,000 limit. The bill also changes the mechanics of the credit so that it is applied immediately off the purchase price rather than a tax credit whenever you file. It also allows for up to a $4,000 credit on used EV's.

Got it,

Is there anything in the bill that excludes Tesla from access to those credits?

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