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Tech Compensation in Europe

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Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#51

Post by gregdoesit »

pavlov wrote: post #44

It seems a bit controversial to include private company equity in total compensation. For example, for Estonia, the highest TC is Bolt, but about 26% of the compensation is actually stock in this unlisted unicorn. Presumably that stock price is computed from the last funding round. Who knows what Bolt's valuation will be in the next round? That equity might be marked down 50% or more, and you still can't sell it unti…

I'm building the site (but I didn't submit this Show HN).

The private part of the shares are clearly marked as private in details, and there's an explainer eg at [1].

I do think it's important to include private equity in packages. My Uber stock package turned out to be worth a lot of money once the company went public. I now have friends at Databricks with massive packages - which can go up or down, and are dependent on an IPO. But this is very important information in my view.

[1] https://techpays.com/details/bbkzjx1e6mhj6ynm8yhhu

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#52

Post by akmarinov »

mbg721 wrote: post #39
shmatt wrote: post #34

This is why I dislike the fight against location based pay in the U.S. People are heated about how they add the same value whether in SF or Kentucky, but forget there are people even more valuable than them getting paid significantly less. If you are fighting against location based pay, you should be asking your employer to pay all employees on similar teams worldwide the same

What do you tell your Kentucky-based employees at that point? "Look, 30 cents a week is our business model. You don't see Harbaglarb in Racetothebottomland complaining,"??

Well yeah, if Harbaglarb does the same job as the Kentucky person why shouldn’t they be paid the same?

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#53

Post by akmarinov »

pydry wrote: post #41
shmatt wrote: post #34

This is why I dislike the fight against location based pay in the U.S. People are heated about how they add the same value whether in SF or Kentucky, but forget there are people even more valuable than them getting paid significantly less. If you are fighting against location based pay, you should be asking your employer to pay all employees on similar teams worldwide the same

There are larger legal differences across countries that mostly dont apply between SF and kentucky. & timezone and language/cultural differences too that are not immaterial.

Is your argument that people in different timezones and cultures doing the same job with the same results should be paid less because of it?

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#54

Post by cjbgkagh »

shmatt wrote: post #34

This is why I dislike the fight against location based pay in the U.S. People are heated about how they add the same value whether in SF or Kentucky, but forget there are people even more valuable than them getting paid significantly less. If you are fighting against location based pay, you should be asking your employer to pay all employees on similar teams worldwide the same

There will always be someone somewhere who will offer to do your work cheaper than you.

I would much rather be paid based on skill than based on location. I think people should be able to make the case that indeed they are more productive than X people from Y location. If not, by all means higher the cheaper people and see how that turns out.

For those middling developers who are adversely affected it would make sense that they focus on jobs where location is more important.

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#55

Post by Hamuko »

rr888 wrote: post #37
tiborsaas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list how much employers pay for insurance: https://blog.eurodev.com/social-security-tax-rates-employers... .

Is 45% employer tax for France correct? Ie employer pays €181k for an employee to earn €100k, who then pays 40% income tax and is left with €60k?

Not French, but it doesn't sound that weird. I think my grandmother (an accountant) once told me that the general principle is that an employee should be worth at least three times their salary for the employment to make sense financially.

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#56

Post by bchanudet »

rr888 wrote: post #37
tiborsaas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list how much employers pay for insurance: https://blog.eurodev.com/social-security-tax-rates-employers... .

Is 45% employer tax for France correct? Ie employer pays €181k for an employee to earn €100k, who then pays 40% income tax and is left with €60k?

You are correct for the first number (181k to 100k), but not the second one, as the income tax is calculated by brackets defined in adavance[1]. A single person with no family winning 100k would have to pay 23k, leaving them with 77k. This is more than twice the average in France[2] and nearly thrice the median salary [3].

[1] : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1419 [2] : https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/serie/010752333 [3] : https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6436313#titre-bloc-9

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#57

Post by ptr »

dijit wrote: post #48
ptr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries in Europe provide that don’t they? Also, Sweden has the number 8 highest income tax in Europe and has in fact very low taxes on investments (the ISK accounts). “Pretty bad healthcare system honestly”? That’s a big exaggeration… both public and private healthcare has worked great in my experience. Sounds like you have some kind of beef with Scandinavia.

1) Most countries in Europe provide [healthcare, education and economic support] Varies state to state, in some countries there is "mandatory health insurance" which is subsidised, NHS is free at point of sale in the UK. Education is also dubious, as in some of Europe there's subsidies for childcare under school age, but it's nearly universal to have free healthcare for standard ages (school years 0 - 11); and very f…

"if you lose your job then you're really taken care of" only if you've paid into insurance: to get taken care of you need to pay into both an a-kassa and an inkomstförsäkring. Ie, two insurances. The money you get from the government is usually capped, and capped low (considering all salaries in Sweden).

My source for the tax income: https://taxfoundation.org/top-personal-income-tax-rates-euro... note, it's the marginal tax rate, ie, what a person with a top salary would pay.

Also, remember the ISK accounts. By paying 0.375% on your account assets annually, you don't pay any capital gains tax. This is imo a big enabler for the "common person" to build up capital.

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#58

Post by gregdoesit »

muxator wrote: post #49

Info: this does not work in Firefox (102 on linux, but that's a detail) with content blocking enabled, because Firefox does not allow to load jQuery from google's CDN. > The resource at “ https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/3.5.1/jquery.mi... was blocked because content blocking is enabled. And then there are cascading errors.

Thanks! Another reason this is still in alpha - I was not ready for someone to submit this to HN just yet.

Wow, how the world changed from using Google's CDNs to having to host it yourself.

I just pushed a fix to move the script to the local domain. It will be live in a few minutes.

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#59

Post by tiborsaas »

rr888 wrote: post #37
tiborsaas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list how much employers pay for insurance: https://blog.eurodev.com/social-security-tax-rates-employers... .

Is 45% employer tax for France correct? Ie employer pays €181k for an employee to earn €100k, who then pays 40% income tax and is left with €60k?

Maybe someone from France can confirm it, but in Hungary, the 17% is just part of the whole tax. Here's a much better site explaining it: https://hu.talent.com/en/tax-calculator?salary=100000&from=m...

Re: Tech Compensation in Europe

#60

Post by vladvasiliu »

rr888 wrote: post #37
tiborsaas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list how much employers pay for insurance: https://blog.eurodev.com/social-security-tax-rates-employers... .

Is 45% employer tax for France correct? Ie employer pays €181k for an employee to earn €100k, who then pays 40% income tax and is left with €60k?

The employee doesn't pay 40% income tax on a 100k salary.

Income tax in France is progressive. You slice your income in brackets, and for each there's a tax rate. Your average tax rate is the average of your brackets.

The highest bracket in France is 45% for income above 160k, so for your total income tax rate to be about 40%, it would mean that you make an absolute shitload of money.

Income tax brackets, French, but the table is clear enough: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1419

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