Golang is the modern Oberon.
Yes, I believe Robert Griesemer one of the three brains behind Golang is Wirths student.
Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
41–50 of 56 posts
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In any case, Oberon's best days are behind it Maybe if you insist that parallel processing is part of the language (which you likely do if you prefer Active Oberon). Personally I think this can be well delegated to libraries to keep the language simple. Oberon+ doesn't use dedicated syntax even for exception handling; also "green" or regular threads, and channels and the like can well be covered by libraries or FFI…
The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk like experience, or to be more precise Mesa/Cedar like experience. So to offer a bare bones language in 2022 without an OS that is at least at the same level of Blue Bottle, let alone what consumers expect from a modern OS is really not attainable. It remains a nice language to look at as language nerd, and at the end of the day, pick something else when delivering software…
> The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience.
That's not even true if you mean the Oberon OS.
The idea - as described in the referenced HOPL paper - was the focus on the essentials of a language, which from my point of view is still a very valid goal, as you can see by just looking at the success of Go.
Swift, C#, Kotlin are at the other extreme of the spectrum, not too far away from modern C++ or Ada, where the language designers seem to want to integrate everything that anyone could ever want. That makes about as much sense as everyone today thinking they have to drive an SUV, and leave the bicycles or other economical means of transport as "a nice thing to look at" for the "transportation nerds".
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk like experience, or to be more precise Mesa/Cedar like experience. So to offer a bare bones language in 2022 without an OS that is at least at the same level of Blue Bottle, let alone what consumers expect from a modern OS is really not attainable. It remains a nice language to look at as language nerd, and at the end of the day, pick something else when delivering software…
> The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience. That's not even true if you mean the Oberon OS. The idea - as described in the referenced HOPL paper - was the focus on the essentials of a language, which from my point of view is still a very valid goal, as you can see by just looking at the success of Go. Swift, C#, Kotlin are at the other extreme of the spectrum, not too far away from m…
It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3.
Oberon-07 isn't it.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience. That's not even true if you mean the Oberon OS. The idea - as described in the referenced HOPL paper - was the focus on the essentials of a language, which from my point of view is still a very valid goal, as you can see by just looking at the success of Go. Swift, C#, Kotlin are at the other extreme of the spectrum, not too far away from m…
It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3. Oberon-07 isn't it.
References?
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3. Oberon-07 isn't it.
References?
References to what?
Worth's quest to reduce Oberon's usability to a language without the libraries and related OS infrastructure that made it interesting to use in first place?
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
References?
References to what? Worth's quest to reduce Oberon's usability to a language without the libraries and related OS infrastructure that made it interesting to use in first place?
References for your claim that "The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience." and "It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3." I was at ETH until 1993 (and then again from 2000 to 2005 for my PhD) and have other information directly from the sources.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#47Golang is the modern Oberon.
Golang is the admission by the creators of B, C, Unix, and Plan-9, that Wirth was right.
This is a rather bold claim given that the most obvious influence was the method syntax of Oberon-2 (designed by H.P. Mössenböck, the PhD supervisor of R. Griesemer), and besides that there are only some superficial similarities between Oberon and Go. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32303837.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
References to what? Worth's quest to reduce Oberon's usability to a language without the libraries and related OS infrastructure that made it interesting to use in first place?
References for your claim that "The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience." and "It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3." I was at ETH until 1993 (and then again from 2000 to 2005 for my PhD) and have other information directly from the sources.
So now I have to find a magic paragraph, which as it seems won't change your mind anyway, because "I was there Luke", why bother life is too short.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
References for your claim that "The whole point of Oberon was the Smalltalk ... Mesa/Cedar like experience." and "It is definitly true for Oberon OS System 3." I was at ETH until 1993 (and then again from 2000 to 2005 for my PhD) and have other information directly from the sources.
So now I have to find a magic paragraph, which as it seems won't change your mind anyway, because "I was there Luke", why bother life is too short.
No magic, just facts, Luke; don't search too long; look at the introductory sections of "Project Oberon, The Design of an Operating System and Compiler" (ACM 1992), "The Oberon Companion, A Guide to Using and Programming Oberon System 3" (vdf 1998), and Gutknecht, J (1994): Oberon System 3: Vision of a Future Software Technology, Springer, Software.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
So now I have to find a magic paragraph, which as it seems won't change your mind anyway, because "I was there Luke", why bother life is too short.
No magic, just facts, Luke; don't search too long; look at the introductory sections of "Project Oberon, The Design of an Operating System and Compiler" (ACM 1992), "The Oberon Companion, A Guide to Using and Programming Oberon System 3" (vdf 1998), and Gutknecht, J (1994): Oberon System 3: Vision of a Future Software Technology, Springer, Software.
Thanks for proving me right it would be a waste of time.
See, this could have been a healthy discussion about Oberon, instead it went sour.