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TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

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Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all of human history across every culture, parents would do what they could to keep their kids away from “bad influences”. Not to be pedantic, but is this actually true? Parents used to send their kids to work in the factory at 10. Was that "keeping them away from bad influences"? If you're saying something is "across every culture", I think some citation is required.

Pretty much always when people say things like this, they are talking about few % of ruling class (whether they were bureaucratic, capitalist, feudal lords or whatever), and imagine themselves as part of this class.

The ruling class did _not_ shy away from debauchery. King Edward VII of England was so fat he had a special sex chair made so his stomach wouldn't get in the way.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#153
post #16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktok and pop-culture generally make me very skeptical on "ADHD", the so-called "spectrum" and "neurodivergence" generally. I'm not saying these things don't exist, but much of it seems very difficult to falsify -- which needs to be the gold standard of determining these sort of things; e.g. "By what process can someone reasonably determine that they are NOT neurodivergent?"

> much of it seems very difficult to falsify It's quite straightforward, albeit involved (as in technically easy, but takes time) to falsify. You have to work with a licensed medical professional who will evaluate traits, strengths, and difficulties, and to what extent they impact functioning as a person in society. Basically, are they "well-adjusted"? If they make it through school, college and adulthood without a t…

> Basically, are they "well-adjusted"?

This is so easy to game. People read the diagnostic criteria online and echo it back to their doctor for a prescription. Their proof of needing adjustment can be little more than pointing to their grades and attributing their less than stellar academic performance to the list of ADHD symptoms they memorized online. EZ way to get yourself a stimulant subscription. This was particularly common during the pandemic when you could do it entirely online without actually meeting a doctor in person. I saw a lot of people explicitly advocating this sort of deception to get stimulant prescriptions; all described it as very easily done.

I tend to think those drugs should be legal OTC, so part of me thinks "so what?" But the problem is that right now it isn't legal OTC, so the system is giving a leg up to anybody willing to lie to a doctor, while honest people have to make do with lesser PEDs like caffeine.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#154
post #45
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one will be giving my child unfettered and unmonitored access to the internet as I had growing up. I will be suplementing that experience with plenty of education on how to avoid some of the pitfalls, but I find the best way to learn that stuff is to experience it yourself.

Not sure how old you are but the internet of today is not the same as it was when I was growing up.

Yes, today's internet is far tamer. You need to go on tor to find half the stuff I'd see daily on forum around 1999.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#155
post #7

Tik Tok is the reason I've been told several times I have ADHD. Pretty sure I don't! This phenomenon is so infuriating. The only half-convincing defense I've heard of it is that it could, maybe, theoretically, disseminate information about illnesses to people who don't have the money to see a professional, but the other effects are so much worse it doesn't seem worth it.

Tiktok and pop-culture generally make me very skeptical on "ADHD", the so-called "spectrum" and "neurodivergence" generally. I'm not saying these things don't exist, but much of it seems very difficult to falsify -- which needs to be the gold standard of determining these sort of things; e.g. "By what process can someone reasonably determine that they are NOT neurodivergent?"

ADHD person here. When I was diagnosed in high school, I honestly didn't believe it, but I have come to accept that it really is a difference between myself and normal people. Normal, small, repetitive tasks are extremely hard to remember and keep track of. I need to write tasks down or perform them immediately, or I will commit and forget. However, when a novel and interesting task comes along, I can get lost in it for hours, forgetting to eat or sleep or even spend time with my family. "Interesting" is subjective, but I'm sure you could design a study that could begin to identify people.

One problem is that there's a pop culture understanding of ADHD and there's the medical version. Because ADHD is poorly understood and is diagnosed by ticking boxes, I get the feeling that some people just say what they need to say to get the diagnosis/meds/whatever. (I am unmedicated and have been my entire adult life. I felt a bit like a zombie on Adderall, and my heart was constantly racing.)

On the other hand, I do think there's probably a better, deeper explanation that has eluded the professionals. I suspect that ADHD has something to do with a lack of free play for young children. When kids are able to free play, they invent their own games and set their own boundaries and learn to regulate themselves; this does not happen when they are under adults' direction. As a consequence, we see that the US has extremely high ADHD rates in children, whereas in other countries, especially ones where early education consists almost entirely of free play, especially outdoors, is encouraged, the rates are quite low.[0] Further, within the US, we see that children born in August seem to have a higher chance of an ADHD diagnosis than those born in September.[1]

I suspect that the disorder is "real," but with a very strong "nurture" component. In the US over the past 60 years or so, children's lives have become increasingly directed by adults, from time spent in school to time spent in sports or clubs organized by adults to time spent at home doing homework. At the same time, Americans have become increasingly hostile to the idea of children's free play. "Where is that kid's adult?" is something I hear from other parents when I take my kids to the playground.

If I could summarize my own experience, I would say I have trouble self-regulating along the spectrum of being bored or interested in a topic. If I'm bored, or think I will be, I have almost an anxious response; if I'm interested, I may get lost in the task or topic till a phone call from my wife breaks me out of it. For what it's worth, when I'm healthy, I can rarely sleep more than 6 1/2 hours per night.

[0]https://academic.oup.com/shm/article/30/4/767/2919401

[1]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/could-being-born-in-augu...

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it damage you? And what do you think was the most negative influence?

General desensitivity to most terrible things that I once used to have empathy towards. I think it's the cause of a lot of our problems today actually. We can so easily just shrug off the plight of others and keep going on our own way.

A lot of very young people often try to be as cool and detached as possible. How foolish really. I think it is important to save some empathy for later but I believe part of it is just growing up and realizing you cannot change everything and not feeling empathy towards everything is a form of self defense. I believe it is difficult to attribute this to media consumption but there very well could be a part to that. It is intuitive at least.

On the other hand I try to compare it to the empathy of people that were not exposed to anything like the free media on the internet. And often they don't show increased levels of empathy either, often quite to the contrary.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You move to certain areas, go to certain places, are members of certain organizations etc. which serve to socialize your kids with kids from families that have shared values. You don’t talk to strangers. This is also a good recipe to plant prejudice. I'm glad parents no longer have such a strong influence.

This is an absolutely abhorrent take.

Is it though? If anything, education is precisely this, cultivating a baseline of cultural understanding. It can be weaker or better than the education in the family, but it sets a bar for at least yee good.

Of course, TikTok is not vetted and you can have a lot of bad stuff there (I think, I didn't use it a whole lot) but surely this whole thing is moral panic.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#158

I recently discovered "systems" people via Reddit (r/SystemsCringe) will searching for systems engineering. The core belief seems to be that the individual has "multiple people" living in the same body. They've devised a whole language for talking about it as well[0]. This reminds me of the "otherkin" fad that occurred primarily on Tumblr about a decade ago[1]. It was where teenagers believed themselves to not be hum…

Try reading up on plural systems before you make such judgements. And don't hang around /r/SystemsCringe; it's a hate sub.

Otherkin is not a fad, and it's not confined to Tumblr; it's been around for decades, all over the net and real-life society. There's considerable overlap between otherkin and furry; otherkin is basically furry for fictional species.

Anyway, furry/otherkin and plural people read and post here to Hackernews all the time -- often as experts in their professional field. One of the most consistent producers of high-quality content featured here, Xe Iaso, appears to be both. Mind your manners.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s no wonder so many kids think they have mental disorders or any of the other mind viruses going around. Every older generation has said this about the incoming generation - without fail. I'll take the flip side. There are so many great social medias about loving yourself, loving your kids, crying is okay for dudes, and men don't have to be a certain way (i'm a dude). It's okay not to know how to change your oil…

I sympathize with everyone who looks at tiktok and starts to cry. That said I think this "you are allowed to show feelings" is extremely out of place and out of time. And not good general advice at all. You should not show your feelings to just anyone. You should have self worth and share with those you trust. There is a reason why PR exists for people in the public sphere. Most people will treat you kindly and it is…

> That said I think this "you are allowed to show feelings" is extremely out of place and out of time. And not good general advice at all. You should not show your feelings to just anyone.

The alternate that "you are allowed to show your feelings" is trying to combat, is the idea that you can't show your feelings to anyone, at any time.

So your advice is correct, but nowhere near the issue yet. You're telling people when to shift into fourth gear, when they're struggling to get out of first.

Re: TikTok videos leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (2021)

#160
post #85

Young people on the internet have been doing this since at least the 90s, though it's definitely become more popular (mainly due to internet culture spreading to normal society). Just think back to the LiveJournal/MySpace era - it was the same exact thing back then. All the kids that I knew who did this have grown up to be completely normal adults.

There is a comment like this any time TikTok comes up, but I find it hard to believe that (to exaggerate) everything has and will always be the same. Doesn't the fact that being on a personal phone that children have access to most of the time distinguish newer social networks (Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok) from it's predecessors. Doesn't the availability of better network connections allow for more easily addictive m…

I think there's a fallacy underlying this that if the warning is the same, the threat must be the same.

Yes, people have been saying "beware the influence of technology on children" for decades, maybe centuries. That doesn't prove that the warnings are false. And even if the past warnings were false for past technology, that doesn't prove that the current warnings are false for current technology.

"People have been saying that forever" is not a rebuttal of "TikTok is bad for kids". It's not even close. It's basically DH2 on Paul Graham's disagreement hierarchy: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

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