I think the real issue is outside of Google's reach. You shouldn't have to lose the roof over your head just because you don't have access to your emails. Sure, it sucks that Google doesn't care if these people lose their access to Gmail. But I don't see how Google has a greater responsibility than the state/government in this.
Librarian's Letter to Google Security
101–110 of 484 posts
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with your suggestion. I think Post Offices, DMVs, and large reputable retailers (Walmart, Target, Cellular Phone companies, etc.) could verify our identities for a small fee and help us reset our social accounts when needed. I arrived at the same conclusion and wrote a blog post about it a few years ago: https://www.go350.com/posts/now-they-have-2fa-problems/
Aren't half of those things you listed (Walmart, Target, Cellular Phone companies, etc.) also exactly how people get unauthorized access? You convince the employee to port "your" number and they do so and then you reset that accounts password? https://www.wptv.com/money/consumer/phone-porting-leads-to-s...
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#1031. When creating a Google account, you can choose that the account will be owned by a specified library (or other institution). This can also be done for already created accounts.
2. When that account is then locked out due to missing 2FA, the library holds the backup codes and can be provided upon identification.
This is similar to how Google accounts can be managed by a company that you are employed at.
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#104The best solution I can think of that doesn't compromise security is hardware keys. GMail has very good FIDO support. The keys are easier to use than TOTP and vastly more secure than SMS. They do not depend on any phone or phone service, and there is no transferring necessary at any time. The librarian would just need to get the person logged in successfully one time, get the key attached to the person's account, and…
Reading this comment, I thought Yubikeys, which aren't /expensive/, but aren't cheap either. I was pleased to see they have a key targeted at this specific use case now - the Security Key Series [0]. At $25, that is not too bad a price, and something I'd buy for the members of my family without much hesitation. The hangup with this, which I think the librarian in question will feel, is what happens when someone loses…
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#105So, what should Google do, here?
Google employs the smartest minds on the planet and also have full insight on how Google works and what tools they have, so it shouldn't be hard for them to come up with a viable solution I believe.
Credential stuffing is a big problem. It is a really big problem for email accounts, which often are all you need to reset a password for other critical accounts. 2FA, even SMS-based 2FA observably reduces the rate of account theft. 2FA also fundamentally requires access to some extra thing that you posses, often a computing device. So it also adds friction and can lock people out (as can losing passwords). I think in part because 2FA appeared later, we seem to be okay with people getting locked out of accounts if they lose their password but not okay with people getting locked out of accounts because they cannot access their second factor.
Library computers are also untrusted devices. They are also not the only untrusted devices that people want to use to login to their accounts.
As for solutions.
Printable access codes are supported in gmail. This is a pain to do over and over but does permit 2FA without any additional computing device. You can let people disable 2FA (which is possible), though you can expect another letter pointing at the suffering this causes and arguing the opposite.
You could enroll the library in a "Bob uses this library to authenticate, don't ask for 2FA here" mechanism that does not use cookies but I'm not sure what this would actually be given that the library is deliberately resetting state on the machine after each session. Perhaps there is some acceptable state that the library could keep around? A solution in this vein requires coordination between email providers and libraries but is maybe the most promising approach. Or you could do something like a family account that permits the librarian's account to tell gmail to temporarily permit 2FA-less logins for a particular account/device pair.
You could recognize that 2FA most protects against stuffing and not let people choose their own passwords to guarantee uniqueness, but I suspect you'll get an equal number of people who fail to remember their long password of random characters and get locked out, leading to a similar letter complaining that Google is harming people who need memorable passwords.
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#106> This elderly woman, looked to be in her 70s, might lose the roof over her head, due to being unable to log into her Google account, because she lost her old phone and with it, her phone number. I think the real issue is outside of Google's reach. You shouldn't have to lose the roof over your head just because you don't have access to your emails. Sure, it sucks that Google doesn't care if these people lose their ac…
But is your position really that losing access to your email isn't a big deal with real-world consequences? Forget government services, nearly everything you do online requires access to an email address.
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#107Which email service should one recommend in these cases? ProtonMail?
Outlook.com as it's the simplest to use. Their immediate concern is their livelihood so they need a free email account and not have to think about anything else including its lifetime.
To a techie audience?
ProtonMail, FastMail, Tutanota, GMail, Postfix...
Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#108Re: Librarian's Letter to Google Security
#109I wish that Shelley had co-written this letter with either a tech employee or a more tech-focused librarian. The problem that she mentions is real: I've worked in her position and can confirm. But the way the letter is written makes it clear that she's not very familiar with the tech industry or how things are developed. If I were a Google engineer, this would read like one of dozens of pleas we get constantly to cha…