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Nuclear energy is clean

collectifission.nl

381–390 of 709 posts

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#381

This article perfectly exemplifies the arguments in discussions. Lets just concentrate on the waste discussion. The article says heavy metals in solar panels are a problem (I kind of agree, although the way it is described makes it out like we are talking about huge amounts, in reality the lead in solar panels is largely from soldering so very small amounts. Orders of magnitude more are being used for other applicati…

I agree with some of your criticism of the article, but I disagree that nuclear waste is a problem. Yes, we have to store it somewhere. But all US plants combined make ~5k cubic meters of nuclear waste a year. To put that in perspective, the strategic oil reserve is 100 million cubic meters. A single aircraft carrier is 2 million cubic meters. Political will aside, finding a place to store this stuff doesn’t seem lik…

> Political will aside, finding a place to store this stuff doesn’t seem like a massive problem.

How about your backyard?

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with some of your criticism of the article, but I disagree that nuclear waste is a problem. Yes, we have to store it somewhere. But all US plants combined make ~5k cubic meters of nuclear waste a year. To put that in perspective, the strategic oil reserve is 100 million cubic meters. A single aircraft carrier is 2 million cubic meters. Political will aside, finding a place to store this stuff doesn’t seem lik…

> Yes, we have to store it somewhere. But all US plants combined make ~5k cubic meters of nuclear waste a year. And all those extra 5k cubic meters per year of nuclear waste needs to be stored for around a million years until they are again safe.

If you read the article you'd see it's not "million years" but ~300.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#383
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are not baseload. If you add batteries to the mix, nuclear is better. Not to mention the quantity of power produced. Nuclear is expensive because it's long term investment. Renewables also cost more in resources (concrete, steel, copper), there are sourced charts about this. Renewables are better than coal and gaz, but not better than nuclear. There's nothing wrong with renewables, but it's not enough to o…

Why aren’t they base load? If every country over provisioned renewables, then you have a transmission problem not a storage problem. The sun does always shine, the wind does always blow.

You can't transmit energy efficiently over very large distances, power lines will have too much loss power due to resistance.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#384
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are not baseload. If you add batteries to the mix, nuclear is better. Not to mention the quantity of power produced. Nuclear is expensive because it's long term investment. Renewables also cost more in resources (concrete, steel, copper), there are sourced charts about this. Renewables are better than coal and gaz, but not better than nuclear. There's nothing wrong with renewables, but it's not enough to o…

It doesn't have to be batteries, it can be pump storage plant or similar installations. Problem that those don't work aren't technical. There are often legislative in nature or the infrastructure for energy transportation is inadequate. We don't know how feasibly we can get Uranium. The market is unstable right now because of political problems. The topic is very complex, there are disadvantages with every form of en…

Uranium is easier to find than copper and other rare metals, because by weight, it can generate more power. There is uranium in sea water, and I bet it's efficient enough to filter that uranium.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#385
The article seems to support its headline by claiming that most of the millions of m3 of waste currently being stored by nuclear operating nations doesn't exist and that the remaining part is harmless because it's only plutonium.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#386
post #299
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really a place where there is equivalent power from solar and/or wind alone?

Very many places. Germany: 41% of all power was from renewables in 2021 https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/climate-energy/rene... UK: 43.1% of all power was from renewables in 2020 https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-mu... Australia: 32.5% (2021): https://apo.org.au/node/317318 US: 22% expected in 2022: https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/electricity.php

You're arguing for him. Those places do not go anywhere close to full renewable. Germany being one of your best examples has put out vaaastly more CO2 than let's say France. This because it needs variable output to cover the variable output of it's renewables and as their share of the pie grows so do the costs of providing either storage or variable output.

The strategy of our Greens in Belgium too was to build gas plants to cover for when the nuclear reactors were shut down like they always wanted. You may have noticed tho that gas has seen some changes in price and circumstances and a lot of people have started wondering why Greens are so eager to increase CO2 output.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#387
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren’t they base load? If every country over provisioned renewables, then you have a transmission problem not a storage problem. The sun does always shine, the wind does always blow.

You can't transmit energy efficiently over very large distances, power lines will have too much loss power due to resistance.

That's a solved problem today. China has a 12 GW 3,300 km (2,100 mi) HVDC line in use for a couple of years now.

The loss is 2-3% per 1,000 km depending on the voltage of the system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#388
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% correct. Not only have nuclear costs not improved in the three quarters of a century it has existed, it's only gotten more expensive while wind and solar have plunged, dramatically, in costs. In the US, nuclear capacity is being replaced by wind and solar at six times the rate it's being "lost"; the hysterics you read here on HN and reddit are just that. And the rate of solar and wind deployment is skyrocketing.…

> We need the very fastest ways to reduce carbon generation Why does Germany performs abysmally wrt. electrical production carbon intensity despite having enough wind/solar installed capacity to cover their consumption?

I am not sure why I am being downvoted, when a quick look at figures [1] show Germany indeed performs abysmally considering the amount of installed wind/solar capacity.

As I speak, only 10% of combined wind and solar power are generating electricity in Germany, with coal having to back up, running at half its capacity. Germany electricity production carbon intensity is approx. 400 g of CO2 eq. per kWh. Nuke-heavy France is at 100 g.

Nuke and/or hydro-heavy countries are generally under 80; Germany is consistently above 200 g at all time in the year.

[1] https://app.electricitymaps.com/map [2] https://twitter.com/BotElectricity/status/147848264776883404...

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#389

This article perfectly exemplifies the arguments in discussions. Lets just concentrate on the waste discussion. The article says heavy metals in solar panels are a problem (I kind of agree, although the way it is described makes it out like we are talking about huge amounts, in reality the lead in solar panels is largely from soldering so very small amounts. Orders of magnitude more are being used for other applicati…

The solar panel argument is very weak, at best. There are some minor challenges with solar. And they are really very minor. Quite different to "don't touch the nuclear waste for the next few million or so years".

Nuclear has several problems. The main one of which is simply its cost. It is complex technology that involves dangerous materials that need protective measures against both technical failures and security measures against people doing things like building dirty bombs with these materials. You don't need a lot of nuclear waste to make a really effective dirty bomb.

All solvable, but it adds to the cost. Security generally involves babysitting reactors for their operational life as well as securing any sites where the waste is stored.

Solar is about an order of magnitude cheaper and faster to deploy. That's conservative. It's hard to not emphasize just how simple solar panels are in comparison. Mass producing them seems to lead to all sorts improvements in production processes and cost reductions. So they are an order of magnitude cheaper now. It might be two or three in some decades.

A solar panel just works for a few decades. You put it wherever and at the end of it's life you either recycle it or not. That's mostly a cost driven decision. We're talking perfectly inert material that you can have on your roof for decades without being exposed to anything harmful. Really, landfills of the stuff would not pose that many challenges. Certainly not compared to the other stuff we dump there like household electronics, old phones, depleted non rechargeable batteries, etc.

However, landfills of this stuff seem wasteful and probably the trace elements of various minerals and precious metals will be too tempting for recycling companies for that not to not happen. It will be some decades before we know because most panels in use today just got installed fairly recently and will be operating for some decades to come. Same with lithium ion car batteries. We already recycle lead acid batteries for decades. The value of lead is comparatively low to nickel and lithium. This might be a multi billion dollar industry. Nuclear waste is not very profitable at all. Just cost. People might get smart about lowering that cost is the best you can say about it.

I doubt the math will ever add up for nuclear to matter much. When your competition is orders of magnitudes cheaper, it doesn't matter how rosy a picture you paint for dealing with terrorists, nuclear waste, and the potential for area depopulating disasters. It's still too expensive. Mitigating those things will never be free. That's the problem.

Re: Nuclear energy is clean

#390
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are not baseload. If you add batteries to the mix, nuclear is better. Not to mention the quantity of power produced. Nuclear is expensive because it's long term investment. Renewables also cost more in resources (concrete, steel, copper), there are sourced charts about this. Renewables are better than coal and gaz, but not better than nuclear. There's nothing wrong with renewables, but it's not enough to o…

Why aren’t they base load? If every country over provisioned renewables, then you have a transmission problem not a storage problem. The sun does always shine, the wind does always blow.

wind does not always blow nor can you always deploy a turbine and you clearly don't understand the ridiculous amount of space taken by the windmills to actually over provision.

Technically if you were to over provision, yes that would work, but the problem is more that you cant even do it because of multiple different reasons. It's easier to understand when you realize that we don't have more hydro because most of the good places already have a damn. The best place for mills is currently in Denmark where they are being deployed at sea, thats not most places.

Nuclear is the way to go for base power and the voltage adjustments can be done with windmills, solar and as a last resort with a coal/gas plant.

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