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Citroen 2cv pages

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Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#81

Post by prmoustache »

kragen wrote: post #78
masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "2CV" in the car name was kind of a tax fraud, though. It was not, the taxable horsepower and the “actual” horsepower are completely different things, as the former is derived from displacement (and / or gear speed at a fixed rpm). There was no fraud because this was how it was expected to work.

From my point of view, making the taxable horsepower a completely different thing from the actual horsepower is a fraud. Maybe you mean that the fraud was perpetrated by the tax office and not Citroen?

No it wasn't because from the start these were called "chevaux fiscaux" and nobody was mistaken the 2 kinds of horsepower.

At the time nobody cared about the real horsepower anyway. Until the late 80's the only benchmark that people view in term of car performance capability was the top speed and at a lesser level the 0 to 100kph numbers. The first speed limits had been introduced only in 1974 and at first been presented as temporary measures.

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#82

Post by speedgoose »

kragen wrote: post #78
masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "2CV" in the car name was kind of a tax fraud, though. It was not, the taxable horsepower and the “actual” horsepower are completely different things, as the former is derived from displacement (and / or gear speed at a fixed rpm). There was no fraud because this was how it was expected to work.

From my point of view, making the taxable horsepower a completely different thing from the actual horsepower is a fraud. Maybe you mean that the fraud was perpetrated by the tax office and not Citroen?

It’s simply not the same unit.

By the way the French state use the proper metric unit for power, watts, and not horsepower.

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#83

Post by Svip »

jacquesm wrote: post #76
Svip wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mechanic also tells me I'm fortunate that my DS is a five speed manual. No semi-automatic gearbox for me. Also makes the engine bay a lot more accessible (although it is injection). So far, I've replaced the headgasket, cylinders, water pump and injection distributor (with one that achieves lower revs in neutral). The engine repairs were substantial, since water had leaked into one of the cylinders, but it was pos…

Activa V6 is amazing , those are super rare to begin with and I've only driven one once. Cornering in that thing is the weirdest experience initially and afterwards every other car except for high end sports cars feel 'off'. DS with a five speed manual is the best combo, keep an eye on your steering housing (those tend to go slowly but failure is potentially catastrophic) and front carrier arms, the bushings will wea…

My understanding is that only 2700 Activa V6 were ever built. I doubt half of those have survived. Now and then, one will appear for sale, and they disappear about as quickly as they appear. I remember rushing across country to pick up mine as soon as it went on sale.

I've recently bought a house with room for a workshop. I've known for a while that the steering on the DS was an issue that needed fixing. Now that I will finally have room to work on it, I look forward to start fixing this among other issues. Including fixing the wiring for the thermostat to the dashboard.

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#84

Post by peoplefromibiza »

kragen wrote: post #78
masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "2CV" in the car name was kind of a tax fraud, though. It was not, the taxable horsepower and the “actual” horsepower are completely different things, as the former is derived from displacement (and / or gear speed at a fixed rpm). There was no fraud because this was how it was expected to work.

From my point of view, making the taxable horsepower a completely different thing from the actual horsepower is a fraud. Maybe you mean that the fraud was perpetrated by the tax office and not Citroen?

It is not a fraud, it is simply how the tax works.

In Italy it is called "cavalli fiscali" same exact meaning of the French translation.

The value depends on the the engine displacement and it's not a unit of measure for power.

The power is indicated in KW, not Hp and has been for a long time now.

So no fraud, same displacement, same tax.

Which also makes sense, it ties the tax to how much volume of fuel can be potentially burnt into the combustion chambers.

EDIT:

Italy being Italy, of course the formula to calculate the value is in a national law approved by the parliament (Art. 9 ter)

http://www.edizionieuropee.it/law/html/89/zn95_24_013.html#_...

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#85

Post by bbsimonbb »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #61

Someone please explain why 2CV was produced for so long (1949-1990) - even in communist countries which were technologically backwards production of 2CV's contemporaries (like FSO Warszawa) was long stopped (1973 in that example).

Minis were produced from 1959 - 2000. VW Beetles, an older design and much worse to drive, from 1938 - 2003!

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#86

Post by Bayart »

surmoi wrote: post #80

When I was at school, we studied the specifications document for that car which are really interesting! The car was designed to transport two farmers with "sabots" (wooden shoes) and either 50Kg of potatoes or a keg. The whole history of the car is of note, I encourage you to look into it if you are curious! (cf. http://www.la2cvmania.be/09_TPV_1939_2cv.htm ) For a bit of context, design started in 1935, a third of t…

I wish current design rules followed what's in the memo : the car must be cheap, easy to maintain, easy to understand, the parts expected to wear must be as durable as possible. I quote : « Quality must be impeccable - yet it must affordable ».

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#87

Post by jaclaz »

sbarre wrote: post #60
bufordtwain wrote: post #49

The 2CV is an interesting car to drive. It has very little power and the gear stick pokes out of the dashboard. It's a comfortable ride and you can peel back the cloth roof cover on a sunny day. Unfortunately it's not great at protecting the occupants in the event of a crash. Its doors are really thin and there are no air bags. Its design is very simple. Here is a video of a 2CV being dismantled and reassembled in 5…

There's also the story of the man who was driving a 2CV in the desert, hit a rock and ruined his front axle, and converted the remains in a two-wheeler to make it back to civilization alive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFMWgSgB4sg

Which was tested (and debunked) by Mythbusters but other people actually managed to create motorcycles from 2CV's:

https://citroenvie.com/those-who-have-made-the-brave-attempt...

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#88

Post by canbus »

Scariest (and most exciting!) automotive experience I've ever had was in a 2CV, being thrown around the west german hill passes in one of those things felt like a near-death experience every corner...

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#89

Post by [deleted] »

kragen wrote: post #78
masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "2CV" in the car name was kind of a tax fraud, though. It was not, the taxable horsepower and the “actual” horsepower are completely different things, as the former is derived from displacement (and / or gear speed at a fixed rpm). There was no fraud because this was how it was expected to work.

From my point of view, making the taxable horsepower a completely different thing from the actual horsepower is a fraud. Maybe you mean that the fraud was perpetrated by the tax office and not Citroen?

[deleted]

Re: Citroen 2cv pages

#90

Post by masklinn »

kragen wrote: post #78
masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "2CV" in the car name was kind of a tax fraud, though. It was not, the taxable horsepower and the “actual” horsepower are completely different things, as the former is derived from displacement (and / or gear speed at a fixed rpm). There was no fraud because this was how it was expected to work.

From my point of view, making the taxable horsepower a completely different thing from the actual horsepower is a fraud. Maybe you mean that the fraud was perpetrated by the tax office and not Citroen?

You’re certainly entitled to your incorrect opinions, but there is no fraud there, nobody past the age of 15 would have been confused by “actual horsepower” (ch) being different from “taxable horsepower” (cv).

They’re simply two completely different units, historically barely related (although since 1998 the french taxable horsepower does depend at all on the actual horsepower which previously was not the case, and since 2020 it is only a factor of the actual horsepower).

Fiscal horsepower is a tool of taxation, incentivisation, and segmentation.

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