Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

public.law

1–10 of 36 posts

Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#1
I'm a pro bono attorney, and have been really interested in making the law easier to understand. I also see a ton of government resources online in varying degrees of usability. And for sure, there's no interoperability between them.

This is an international legal dictionary, an experiment in improving the situation: glossaries are scraped and parses from official sources: https://github.com/public-law/open-gov-crawlers. The results are saved as datasets in well formed JSON with Dublin Core metadata: https://github.com/public-law/datasets

I add Library of Congress subject headings to the sources, to enable filtering (still to come).

The web app is basically an old-school mashup, which I've always liked.

Another experiment is using the Dale-Chall readability formula to improve the reader's experience. Here's an example of it at work:

https://www.public.law/dictionary/entries/amicus-curiae

This is an experiment, using readability as a relative metric. I.e., not extracing an absolute grade-level score as its normaly used. Instead, using it to compare different definitions of the same phrase. My theory is, there's strong scientific validity for this use, even when applied to very short passages: All I simply want is to figure out, "Which is more readable? Passage A or B?" And then, my code sorts the definitions in order of readability to (theoretically) produce a newspaper-article-like effect: A reader can read the first couple of sentences to get an overview of the story.

Show HN: International Legal Dictionary
public.law

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#3
I'm not sure how mixing legal terms from differing domains will pan out for your intended target audience, here in the Commonwealth hegemony we have issue with self representation in Court from those educated via central north american police and law shows .. quoting their US Constitutional Rights as a Free Citizen, etc.

That said, you might like, say, the New South Wales (Australian) guide to legal terms and self help:

https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis...

which is government funded and assists in connecting people with legal aid and translating legal terms to plainspeak.

Best wishes with your endeavour.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#4
post #3

I'm not sure how mixing legal terms from differing domains will pan out for your intended target audience, here in the Commonwealth hegemony we have issue with self representation in Court from those educated via central north american police and law shows .. quoting their US Constitutional Rights as a Free Citizen, etc. That said, you might like, say, the New South Wales (Australian) guide to legal terms and self he…

Lol, thanks for the perspective from the across the water. I'm already surprised to learn how similar the concepts are (still) across all the common law countries. Even, say, between the U.S. and New Zealand. I was also surprised to find out how easy Canada's sites are to parse, which is why there are so many Canadian sources in the dataset. They're on top of their game with compliant and uniform web apps.

And yep, I found that page too, and it's on my list of Australian sources to add. This one's good, although not as readable:

https://fedcourt.gov.au/digital-law-library/glossary-of-lega...

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#5
The main difference between this, versus using a web search engine, appears to be the readability sorting of definitions and the fact that the definitions are scraped from government resources.

The sorting is quite a bit of fun to see in action.

But, what advantage is there that the source is from a government resource? Versus, say, doing a Google search, or browsing Merriam-Webster's legal dictionary, or doing a search through Black's online edition, and so on.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#6
A somewhat similar project that I started at Google (this was US-only) was:

Common constructions of computer terms ("database", "processor", "thread", etc.) These words appear in patent claims, and the claims are what determine infringement (I use the word "construction" instead of "definition" deliberately).

You might well think there's a standard dictionary of them. There is not, at least as of 5-6 years ago. The parties in a lawsuit propose a construction, and the judge creates one. He's not obliged to follow precedent. Thus you find that "database," for example, has been construed to include a flat file. The construction is supposed to be what the patent writer meant at the time of filing OR what the general industry meaning was.

If that sounds murky, it is. With a chemical patent, there are standard meanings for words, and you won't get far arguing that "methylated" doesn't mean what it generally means. Not so in software.

Often after the judge's claim construction, one side will offer to settle, because they know they'll lose.

Sometimes you'll see a patent from some other country, and of course the meaning of the terms there may not be the same as in the US. So this would be a much, much bigger project than you've taken on.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#7
post #5

The main difference between this, versus using a web search engine, appears to be the readability sorting of definitions and the fact that the definitions are scraped from government resources. The sorting is quite a bit of fun to see in action. But, what advantage is there that the source is from a government resource? Versus, say, doing a Google search, or browsing Merriam-Webster's legal dictionary, or doing a sea…

There are several interesting advantages to government sources:

First, they're public-domain, or should be! In reality, there's crown copyright in the commonwealth countries. And every US State is its own fiefdom often with arcane publishing deals that keep the laws out of the public domain (or so they claim). In the US, only federally authored works are clearly public domain by statute. I got tangentially involved in the issue when I was in law school when I made my first app for Oregon: https://boingboing.net/2009/10/30/oregon-once-again-cl.html

Second, my thinking goes like this: For most people, interactions with their local government is a big part of the legal process. And so knowing how the government defines words is extremely important. IMO it's very persuasive to use the govt's own text in one's arguments. Some of the dictionary's definitions are from actual statutes, and so have the force of law. E.g. https://www.public.law/dictionary/sources/world.public.law__...

Black's is a fantastic book, and I'm a big fan of its editor, Bryan Garner. But as far legal arguments go, it's merely a somewhat persuasive "secondary source."

Ok, and finally, by me picking the sources, I'm filtering out tons of unattributed crap that's online.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#8

A somewhat similar project that I started at Google (this was US-only) was: Common constructions of computer terms ("database", "processor", "thread", etc.) These words appear in patent claims, and the claims are what determine infringement (I use the word "construction" instead of "definition" deliberately). You might well think there's a standard dictionary of them. There is not, at least as of 5-6 years ago. The p…

Your experience reminds me of my own disappointment I experienced as an engineer learning the law: It's nowhere near as organized, structured, and rational as I assumed it would be.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#9
post #3

I'm not sure how mixing legal terms from differing domains will pan out for your intended target audience, here in the Commonwealth hegemony we have issue with self representation in Court from those educated via central north american police and law shows .. quoting their US Constitutional Rights as a Free Citizen, etc. That said, you might like, say, the New South Wales (Australian) guide to legal terms and self he…

Lol, thanks for the perspective from the across the water. I'm already surprised to learn how similar the concepts are (still) across all the common law countries. Even, say, between the U.S. and New Zealand. I was also surprised to find out how easy Canada's sites are to parse, which is why there are so many Canadian sources in the dataset. They're on top of their game with compliant and uniform web apps. And yep, I…

> I'm already surprised to learn how similar the concepts are (still) across all the common law countries.

We can blame the Roman's and, in no small part, William Garrow for all that ..

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Garrow

Despite concepts in common there can still remain the complaint of Shaw (and later Wilde) that we are divided by a common language.

Readability is good, at some point in any legal procedure though there comes an importance of being precise about nomenclature.

In the field of mathematics, for example, such phrases as "if and only if" and "neccesary and sufficient" go deeper than casual reading might understand.

Now comes the twist in law that common phrases may have different interpretations between countries, or as may the case in the USofA, between different counties or states.

Still any move to increase understanding of the law in general with pointers to the law in specific locations is a good one.

Re: Show HN: International Legal Dictionary

#10
Impressive and really readable.

I feel this would benefit from a slightly different name such as International Common Law Dictionary or something similar instead of the general term used now.

I believe that many concepts found in common law just don’t translate to other law systems (let’s say Sweden, Spain, Germany) and a translation of the words (which would help in terms of understanding) actually doesn’t do the concepts justice because they just don’t exist in the other systems.

E.g. „Article III judge“. Probably won’t be found in other systems, but easily translatable or the Chapter entries (Chapter 11, Chapter 9 etc) - surely every law has some kind of similar law or code or whatever, but I believe it couldn’t be directly related to these code chapters.

Post reply on HN