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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

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Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#181

Post by t-3 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #156
huetius wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about plan to subvert unions. It is one thing to do something that is both good for me and also good for others. It is quite another to do something ostensibly good, but with the ulterior intention of preventing the good of another.

Why is hiring felons and underprivileged youth ostensibly good and not just good?

The felons and underprivileged youths don't pay the salaries of union bureaucrats or provide leverage for those bureaucrats to get kickbacks from management. Obviously, that's just not right!

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#182

Post by rayiner »

zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

Using hiring minorities to fight unionization—which could result in far better wages and benefits for those minorities—is terrible. It’s also a textbook example of woke capitalism in action: https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Inc-Corporate-Americas-Justice/d.... The fact they put this

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#183

Post by kelseyfrog »

arrosenberg wrote: post #117
kelseyfrog wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be true if people believed economists like Milton Friedman created reality instead of what was really much more mundane. Those who do so are attributing supernatural powers to a mere mortal.

It is true, regardless of what you believe. There is a ton if empirical evidence for it. Having the patience to push and set legal precedent isn't a superpower. Not sure what your point is here.

I just don't base truth on what Milton Friedman supposedly says or what legal precedent is. There are much better epistemological firmaments than those on which to ground reality.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#184

Post by onethought »

Lich wrote: post #105
onethought wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true though. The shareholders are people so what they want are as varied as what people want. Does Elon want SpaceX to be super profitable or does he want to make life multi planetary? (They aren’t mutually exclusive, but it’s weird to think that he is just trying to make as much profit as possible).

> but it’s weird to think that he is just trying to make as much profit as possible Why is it weird to think that?

Because all their profits come from NASA and starlink… so building a mars capable vehicle doesn’t really make sense from the profit motive perspective. It won’t be profitable in his lifetime.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#185

Post by onethought »

dahdum wrote: post #125
Lich wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it’s weird to think that he is just trying to make as much profit as possible Why is it weird to think that?

More wealth isn’t enough to satiate his ego, he absolutely craves legacy. As of now he’ll still be a small footnote in history, kids will likely learn about Henry Ford 150 years from now but Musk isn’t worth much of an appearance. Tesla is just an iterative step in EV / battery manufacturing, and is likely to be dwarfed by competition over the next 50 years, even if it does really well. SpaceX gives him the chance to…

I wasn’t trying to guess his motives. More his actions don’t match someone trying to maximise profit.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#186

Post by luckylion »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #51
luckylion wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how quoting works. You can't just quote one word and then put something else behind it. There's a difference between "neutralizing unions" and "neutralizing labor's attempt to ..." It's like the difference between "we need to kill him" and "we need to kill his attempt to pass a law that would..."

"labor" as a noun is a synonym for union

Yes, the point isn't the word used, but that they want to "neutralize" a campaign's effects not the union. That's just not how quotes work.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#187

Post by philjohn »

guipsp wrote: post #7
JamesBarney wrote: post #2

This article is both too cynical and yet not cynical enough. Of course Amazon is doing good not out of the goodness of it's heart but for good PR. This is true of literally every large corporation. But that doesn't mean the good they do isn't good. The way they are "neutralizing" them with ex inmates and vulnerable students is they're making a special effort to hire ex-inmates and underprivileged students.

(because they can pay them less)

And they are less likely to kick up a fuss about poor working conditions when the alternative is no job at all as nobody else wants to hire them.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#188

Post by weezin »

hospadar wrote: post #62
stevenjgarner wrote: post #21

Next time you're at a union meeting, ask them about any boxes they own at sports stadiums. Ask if you as a paid union member can use the box that you are paying for with your dues.

While you're at it ask your corporate boss if you can use his private jet since it is your labor making him wealthy after all. I'm sure he'll be very generous. I agree that powerful people aren't great but it seems ridiculous to imagine that union bosses are the worst offenders.

Not even close to the same thing. One is you giving someone money to do something and they spend it on themselves, the other is you getting paid from your employer who bought a jet with their return on investment.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#189

Post by Retric »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #180
Retric wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you don’t like a statement doesn’t mean it’s unverifiable, objectively: Average Warehouse Worker Hourly Pay “Avg. Base Hourly Rate (USD)” $14.99/ hour and $19.57 is top 10%. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Warehouse_Worker/Ho... As to the job sucking, “Amazon warehouse workers suffer serious injuries at twice the rate of rivals, study finds“ https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/12/study-amazon-workers-s…

You didn't provide any info regarding the workload, but it seems like the injury rate is a legitimate issue. Amazon says that it's getting better in the article, and that it spent $300 million on safety (a very low number considering how much the company makes).

I said the workload was worse, higher injury rates than norms is worse.

If you want verification: "We’re developing new automated staffing schedules that use sophisticated algorithms to rotate employees among jobs that use different muscle-tendon groups to decrease repetitive motion and help protect employees from MSD risks.” https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xeba/amazons-new-algorithm...

In other words they are concerned that are pushing people to do their jobs faster than humanly possible but assumed they could make that pace sustainable by rotating jobs over the day rather than say reduce the pace to a sustainable level.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#190

Post by sgift »

smegger001 wrote: post #174
iroh2727 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about Amazon's terrible actions fighting the union. It's about Amazon's exploitative labor practices, the day-to-day oppression that warehouse workers have to deal with. Also, let's not forget that Amazon has unlimited funds to cover up and distract from their misdoings while the Teamsters do not. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-wo... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/…

the teamsters union isn't exactly a small underdog with no funding either.

Compared to Amazon? Yes, they are.
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