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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

vox.com

141–150 of 197 posts

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only point of a company is to maximize shareholder value. You're right, that doesn't always mean "maximize revenue at all costs.” It usually does though, because especially as a growth company that's what shareholders want. Obviously there are competing priorities, but overall most shareholders want to maximize discounted profit, and all their priorities reflect how that should be done.

That’s not true though. The shareholders are people so what they want are as varied as what people want. Does Elon want SpaceX to be super profitable or does he want to make life multi planetary? (They aren’t mutually exclusive, but it’s weird to think that he is just trying to make as much profit as possible).

People in control have much more ability to have the company execute their vision. As an investor the only thing you can do is say yes or no to management. Since the group of investors all have different side goals the one thing they agree on is making money, so management optimizes for that. Then everyone sees that the company exists to make money, so people that are interested in other things self select out. In the end all the shareholders are interested in maximizing the share price.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#142
post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

"the memo proposed that Amazon should create and foster partnerships with local nonprofits and community organizations that company officials hoped would “provide political cover for local policymakers, neutralize organized labors’ attempts to grow their coalition of third-party validators and spokespeople, and provide a platform for Amazon spokespeople and allies to speak of the true economic and social impact of Amazon in Southern California.”

It's an isolate and destroy campaign. Hiring students and ex-inmates (who will both probably tolerate more exploitation than average employees without speaking up), does not impact Amazon's bottom line nearly as much as unionized workers would. If enough people wind up thinking Amazon provides a net benefit to the communities it operates in then it will help silence those who want unions, tax reforms, or just less corporate welfare.

The teamsters don't look bad so much as they appear to have been badly outplayed by a smart opponent.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

If the workers want unions… why not just let them have unions? Amazon is hell bent on suppressing worker power. Acting like Amazon isn’t doing anything wrong here is wishful thinking. We can keep pretending like the needs of the workers are immaterial to the functioning of society or we can let workers have some modicum of control over their workplace conditions. But right now Amazon is trying to crush workers rights…

In theory, a union is merely an organization of like-minded people much like the workmans' guilds of the medieval era. In practice, a union is a country club operating as an extension of state power. It is highly liable to create perverse incentives. There is no such thing as worker power in and of itself so long as the government dictates the terms of unionization.

> Amazon is trying to crush workers rights

What workers' rights are being violated when Amazon decides who may or may not be a future employee at an Amazon warehouse? That's what an employer should do. Amazon is not obligated to hire union-friendly workers.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#144
Has Vox ever once published a single article that was positive or at least neutral about Amazon? Why do we allow such insanely biased media? Do people read Vox and think they're receiving an accurate depiction of reality?

It's just hit piece after hit piece after hit piece. I guess you could try to argue that across hundreds of thousands / millions of employees and thousands of products the company never ever does anything worth praising or even worth neutral reporting, and every single thing the company does is evil, but I think we know that isn't remotely true.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#145

Has Vox ever once published a single article that was positive or at least neutral about Amazon? Why do we allow such insanely biased media? Do people read Vox and think they're receiving an accurate depiction of reality? It's just hit piece after hit piece after hit piece. I guess you could try to argue that across hundreds of thousands / millions of employees and thousands of products the company never ever does an…

So, setting aside that this article is actually low-key pretty positive for Amazon, let's assume you were correct in your read. You're asking why we allow "insanely biased" media? There's a whole amendment--the first one--about that.

Heck, we don't take off the air people spouting replacement theory and backdoor-cheering the attempted overthrow of the duly elected government, and we're supposed to not allow media that throws a few bricks at one of the richest companies in the world?

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#146
post #6

This article is both too cynical and yet not cynical enough. Of course Amazon is doing good not out of the goodness of it's heart but for good PR. This is true of literally every large corporation. But that doesn't mean the good they do isn't good. The way they are "neutralizing" them with ex inmates and vulnerable students is they're making a special effort to hire ex-inmates and underprivileged students.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

If we say that four percent has to be unemployed, who would you choose to be unemployed in the rat race that is life? Just to turn the discussion into something productive.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It smacks of using people Work is fundamentally transactional. Those for whom it is more than that are lucky. > treating them like props in order to secure private gain I worry about moralizing on behalf of the marginalized. They should be asked whether they'd prefer the option to have the work.

Respectfully, I disagree with the postulate that there is no possibility of solidarity with “the marginalized”, and think this is a good example of why. When you say ask “them,” who do you mean? Ex-convicts, Amazon workers, teamsters, some combination of these, or what? And who are you going to listen to when people (inevitably, even within the same faction) disagree? I think that what this approach does is renders e…

I see what you're saying. I think the moral thing here is to beat them at their own game. Presumably any ex-cons hired by Amazon can be brought on board as union members just as well as anyone else.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#148

Has Vox ever once published a single article that was positive or at least neutral about Amazon? Why do we allow such insanely biased media? Do people read Vox and think they're receiving an accurate depiction of reality? It's just hit piece after hit piece after hit piece. I guess you could try to argue that across hundreds of thousands / millions of employees and thousands of products the company never ever does an…

>Has Vox ever once published a single article that was positive or at least neutral about Amazon?

Why does this matter.

>Why do we allow such insanely biased media?

Great question. You might want to start with all American media and their biases towards, for example, the military industrial complex over the last 70+ years. Why do we allow such insanely biased media?

>Do people read Vox and think they're receiving an accurate depiction of reality?

No, my guess is people read articles on Vox they find of interest, and don't base their depictions of reality on one outlet of news media, which sounds unhealthy. Do you do that?

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#149
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

If we say that four percent has to be unemployed, who would you choose to be unemployed in the rat race that is life? Just to turn the discussion into something productive.

That is not how fixed unemployment works, the cause of fixed unemployment is people who are in the process of switching between jobs. Permanently unemployed people would reduce labor force participation, not employment as it is measured.
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